The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[DanH]

Im not going to preach to you about salary cap but:
Barnes, Trent, Birch -Under 32 mil
KD: 44.1 mil
(according to some Nets EXPECT Barnes, plus 1-2 of Siakam, OG, FVV, Plus tons of FRPs). We don't win shit with what's left (never mind potentially crippling FRPs)
Basically have to take (I guess) Birch out & add OG or Pascal or FVV OR Nets to add somebody.
Either way -I doubt we get out of East, never mind Clippers or GS.
Bottom line -IMO, Barnes stays a Raptor.

Kinda seems like you are going to preach to me about the salary cap!

Yeah, you'd need an extra minimum salary or Flynn in there. Not a problem, the math is pretty easy to make work.

Doesn't matter what "according to some" the Nets expect, if the Raptors ever went as far as a Barnes offer (they almost certainly won't) it would be the above, Barnes, Trent, filler, maybe a couple picks.

You doubt we get out of the East with a lineup of FVV, OG, Durant, Pascal, Precious? I mean, it is obviously possible we wouldn't get out of the East but I'd be betting on them to do so. Warriors? Not that scary. Clippers I'll worry about when they prove they can get past the 2nd round or even field a healthy team.

[DanH]

To me he's a clear outside star. Without him they don't win it all, he was desperately needed.

He came to Milwaukee in his 12th season and they won that year. He put up 20 pts, 5 reb, 7 ast the few seasons before that. That's a star level player to me.

Heck they gave up two firsts and two swaps when they traded for him. That's a deal for a star, even if not a top tier star.

[Mapko]

likely shai is the first.

No Shai will not be first.
First was a former No 1 overall pick few years ago.
Lets not talk about Bennett.

[Mapko]

Kinda seems like you are going to preach to me about the salary cap!

Yeah, you'd need an extra minimum salary or Flynn in there. Not a problem, the math is pretty easy to make work.

Doesn't matter what "according to some" the Nets expect, if the Raptors ever went as far as a Barnes offer (they almost certainly won't) it would be the above, Barnes, Trent, filler, maybe a couple picks.

You doubt we get out of the East with a lineup of FVV, OG, Durant, Pascal, Precious? I mean, it is obviously possible we wouldn't get out of the East but I'd be betting on them to do so. Warriors? Not that scary. Clippers I'll worry about when they prove they can get past the 2nd round or even field a healthy team.

My apologies Dan (re salary cap). That was NOT attempt. Considering we are near cap (& Nets way over), I thought we'd have to send out "closer" to $44 mil. Stand corrected.
Can your above team take East? We'd need to beat at least 2 of Bos, Mil, 76ers, Miami. Doable? Certainly? Favs? still not convinced.
We were pretty thin in "depth department" last year. In above scenario: KD, OPJ in, Barnes, Trent out. Still thin. Can we afford for starters to play heavy minutes again? Not a good formula for deep playoff success (in playoffs yes, but nor regular season).
GS (aka champs) -any reason why not as strong next year? Thompson, closer to 100%; Young guns (Kuminga, Weisman, Moody) 1 year of experience & potential to get another star (Mitchell?). IMO, still favs to win it all.
Im (sort of) with you on Clippers. On paper (yet again) No 1. Health? Who knows? Very deep. Can afford to manage time.
Lets hope, all this is moot point. Id hate to give up Barnes (even in above scenario with Trent & maybe 2 FRPs AT MOST) and I doubt Nets would consider it.
In the end, frankly not a fan of getting 34 yo KD, esp with his injuries last few years. With him making $50 mil at age 36 & 37. Ouch. Why not keep that money & spread for FVV, Trent, OG, Siakam & Barnes extensions over that time?

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Who would u rather have..

Shai or Durant?

I take Shai, plus the price would be cheaper, not only that, his 10 years younger, not in his prime.

[Hotshot]

Who would u rather have..

Shai or Durant?

I take Shai, plus the price would be cheaper, not only that, his 10 years younger, not in his prime.

For this upcoming season , I would still take Durant. Best chance to win it all.

But for longevity you go with Shai & I don't think the price will be much cheaper.

[Mapko]

Heck they gave up two firsts and two swaps when they traded for him. That's a deal for a star, even if not a top tier star.

Unfortunately that seems to be going rate. Then again, it worked -they won title. I'd say worth it.
Can you imagine what O'Neil trade from LA to Miami would look like now? For sure not Odom & Butler.

[big boi]

You doubt we get out of the East with a lineup of FVV, OG, Durant, Pascal, Precious? I mean, it is obviously possible we wouldn't get out of the East but I'd be betting on them to do so. Warriors? Not that scary. Clippers I'll worry about when they prove they can get past the 2nd round or even field a healthy team.

I'm all for not trading Scottie, I hope he stays here forever and retires a Raptor, great kid, great young player. I fully understand why management would not want to trade him under almost any circumstance, And particularly when looking at the market for Durant, it doesn't seem like we need to offer Barnes to make the best offer, ...at this stage anyway.

But let's not get it twisted... the above starting lineup would be devastatingly good. If they could stay healthy, I'd put them up against anyone, I certainly wouldn't bet against them. Very rarely does a trade give you pretty much a guaranteed championship, it didn't when we got Kawhi, but it gave us a very good shot and then the stars had to align and we had to stay (largely) healthy.

The amount of space a guy like Durant would create for Pascal... which in turn would create space for him to kick to others when the defense rotated...

That's the reason why I thought Masai might make that trade because it would give us an incredible championship contending window over the next few years. But I also understand and respect that he's saying no to parting with Scottie and staying patient.

[planetmars]

Unfortunately that seems to be going rate. Then again, it worked -they won title. I'd say worth it.
Can you imagine what O'Neil trade from LA to Miami would look like now? For sure not Odom & Butler.

From what I remember about that trade.. LA wanted Wade and Miami wouldn't give him up. Odom was arguably their best player (going by VORP that season). Butler was 5th. Jones and Odom were super close in stats. Wade was a rookie the prior season.

Barnes is untouchable from most sources, yet the Nets wanted him. Pascal lead the team in VORP. OG was 5th.

Shaq was 32 that year.. KD is 34. But a legit superstar. The Heat gave up one FRP and one SRP as well in the deal.


I don't think anyone here would make a Pascal+OG trade for KD, especially if picks were included.. but that's what Miami did to get Shaq.

[big boi]

From what I remember about that trade.. LA wanted Wade and Miami wouldn't give him up. Odom was arguably their best player (going by VORP that season). Butler was 5th. Jones and Odom were super close in stats. Wade was a rookie the prior season.

Barnes is untouchable from most sources, yet the Nets wanted him. Pascal lead the team in VORP. OG was 5th.

Shaq was 32 that year.. KD is 34. But a legit superstar. The Heat gave up one FRP and one SRP as well in the deal.


I don't think anyone here would make a Pascal+OG trade for KD, especially if picks were included.. but that's what Miami did to get Shaq.

In particular because Pascal would slot next to Durant so well as a #2 option. I don't think a trade for Durant works nearly as well if we're giving up Pascal... because we want to be able to win it all of course if trading for Durant.

Fred & OG would be close to what you're outlining above and close to what we've heard some sources have said Brooklyn need... an all star, and an all star calibre type player. You can argue they may be thinking perennial all star instead of a first time all star... but I think that would be a good return for them. It seems like the most a lot of Raps fans could stomach us giving up too. Leaving us with:

Barnes
GTJ/OPJ
Durant
Pascal
Precious

[chris]

From what I remember about that trade.. LA wanted Wade and Miami wouldn't give him up. Odom was arguably their best player (going by VORP that season). Butler was 5th. Jones and Odom were super close in stats. Wade was a rookie the prior season.

Barnes is untouchable from most sources, yet the Nets wanted him. Pascal lead the team in VORP. OG was 5th.

Shaq was 32 that year.. KD is 34. But a legit superstar. The Heat gave up one FRP and one SRP as well in the deal.


I don't think anyone here would make a Pascal+OG trade for KD, especially if picks were included.. but that's what Miami did to get Shaq.

i don't remember the specifics from almost 20 years ago but from looking at his annual income on basketball reference it looks like shaq only had one year left on his deal when the lakers traded him, which is a pretty key difference in circumstances no one is bringing up when comparing durant's value to shaq's

[planetmars]

i don't remember the specifics from almost 20 years ago but from looking at his annual income on basketball reference it looks like shaq only had one year left on his deal when the lakers traded him, which is a pretty key difference in circumstances no one is bringing up when comparing durant's value to shaq's

You're right, he was. He re-signed with Miami in 2005 (they traded for him in 2004). They won a title in 2006.

So yeah, Pascal+OG and a couple of picks would be a huge undersell if we're comparing to the Shaq trade back in 2004. No wonder Brooklyn is saying no to most trades.

[Hotshot]

i don't remember the specifics from almost 20 years ago but from looking at his annual income on basketball reference it looks like shaq only had one year left on his deal when the lakers traded him, which is a pretty key difference in circumstances no one is bringing up when comparing durant's value to shaq's

But is the 4 years contract of Durant a positive or a negative?! I highly doubt the last two years of being 36 and 37 years old while paying Durant 50 million per year will be worth it. Its the first 2 years that matters the most.

[planetmars]

In particular because Pascal would slot next to Durant so well as a #2 option. I don't think a trade for Durant works nearly as well if we're giving up Pascal... because we want to be able to win it all of course if trading for Durant.

Fred & OG would be close to what you're outlining above and close to what we've heard some sources have said Brooklyn need... an all star, and an all star calibre type player. You can argue they may be thinking perennial all star instead of a first time all star... but I think that would be a good return for them. It seems like the most a lot of Raps fans could stomach us giving up too. Leaving us with:

Barnes
GTJ/OPJ
Durant
Pascal
Precious

Yeah, I think Fred+OG is the sweet spot. Although Fred is a UFA and Brooklyn may not want to risk having a key asset in the KD trade leave for nothing by season's end. It's the pick capital that I'm most worried about. We are a good drafting organization. So to lose our picks or to not be able to use one in a future trade would not sit well with me. I'd suspect Masai to feel the same way though.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah, I think Fred+OG is the sweet spot. Although Fred is a UFA and Brooklyn may not want to risk having a key asset in the KD trade leave for nothing by season's end. It's the pick capital that I'm most worried about. We are a good drafting organization. So to lose our picks or to not be able to use one in a future trade would not sit well with me. I'd suspect Masai to feel the same way though.

Well I think that is where I can see us saying OK you can have these two but only two picks but not the 2023 pick.


Fred is a UFA but he will take the money if the extension is offered. You can turn GTJ into something if you must or keep hhim. Pascal should be at the SF and Durant at the Powerforward... the three of barnes siakam and Durant are all interchangeable.
so its either they get additional picks and take FVV and Trent or if you include OG and Fred nothing else.