The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[A.I]

Harden asked to be traded in January, when things started to go south with the Nets.

Thats not my point. My point is he asked to get traded to Philly specifically, who also had a disgruntled star of their own. Everything aligned perfectly.

[Kagemusha]

Thats not my point. My point is he asked to get traded to Philly specifically, who also had a disgruntled star of their own. Everything aligned perfectly.

Which only came to fruition because Morey adamantly waited for that perfect opportunity.
KD isn't as disgruntled as Ben, and a much valuable piece. It only makes sense that the Nets follow the Morey blueprint.

[planetmars]

I think it's just logic. The only reason to make the move is to go for the chip, so trading your all-NBA guy in such a deal makes no sense.

Reality is there has been no solid reporting on this at all re: who is available or not, outside of Scottie being off the table and the Nets asking for ridiculous things and being laughed at.

I agree in that I wouldn't trade Pascal. KD will need someone to play with. But on the other hand it can make sense. We had to trade all-nba DeMar to get Kawhi (and he was on an expiring).

Not quite all-nba yet, but guys like Ingram (for Davis) and Shai (for George) had that potential. Simmons was moved for Harden. Granted that one's unique due to Simmons' dry market at the time.

But the market dictates everything. Right now it feels like the Nets don't have much leverage. But, if the Nets are able to gain some leverage back in negotiations by proving they can convince KD to come back.. then a package deal with Pascal going the other way may be the only one that can get it done.

Personally I would walk away. But I'm not a GM. KD is a pretty special player to give up on. And it could mean the difference between contending for a title, or just kind of being stuck int he mud for awhile.

[A.I]

Which only came to fruition because Morey adamantly waited for that perfect opportunity.
KD isn't as disgruntled as Ben, and a much valuable piece. It only makes sense that the Nets follow the Morey blueprint.

I'm just saying I wouldn't bet on a star requesting a trade to Brooklyn without KD and Kyrie there. That's the only way the Nets get what they're asking for.

Kyrie is a free agent next off-season and KD will continue to get older.

[DanH]

I agree in that I wouldn't trade Pascal. KD will need someone to play with. But on the other hand it can make sense. We had to trade all-nba DeMar to get Kawhi (and he was on an expiring).

Not quite all-nba yet, but guys like Ingram (for Davis) and Shai (for George) had that potential. Simmons was moved for Harden. Granted that one's unique due to Simmons' dry market at the time.

But the market dictates everything. Right now it feels like the Nets don't have much leverage. But, if the Nets are able to gain some leverage back in negotiations by proving they can convince KD to come back.. then a package deal with Pascal going the other way may be the only one that can get it done.

Personally I would walk away. But I'm not a GM. KD is a pretty special player to give up on. And it could mean the difference between contending for a title, or just kind of being stuck int he mud for awhile.

If the Nets can convince KD to stay, they aren't trading him no matter the return. It's all moot.

[planetmars]

If the Nets can convince KD to stay, they aren't trading him no matter the return. It's all moot.

For the most part yes, I agree. But the Nets could also agree to move him for the right price as he created so much turmoil there. Maybe they are tired of all the drama.. but would be willing to absorb it unless they got a player like Pascal back.

[LJ2]

We never know.
Harden seemed to be very excited about playing with his Brooklyn buds in the beginning.
Anyjng can happen during the course of the season, that's why I believe KD will still be a Net come October.

34 yr old KD is still a top 5 player.

And yet you wouldn't trade OG, Trent and some picks for that top 5 player?

[Kagemusha]

If the Nets can convince KD to stay, they aren't trading him no matter the return. It's all moot.

I think Kyrie can land them a good piece back.
Unless KD demands to get traded to Golden State.

[Kagemusha]

And yet you wouldn't trade OG, Trent and some picks for that top 5 player?

Sure, if the Nets bite.
But it's highly doubtful that they settle for that package.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think Kyrie can land them a good piece back.
Unless KD demands to get traded to Golden State.

no one wants kyrie man the lakers don't want him enough to give up real assets for him.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Sure, if the Nets bite.
But it's highly doubtful that they settle for that package.

so what are you suggesting we trade then?

[TrueTorontoFan]

I agree in that I wouldn't trade Pascal. KD will need someone to play with. But on the other hand it can make sense. We had to trade all-nba DeMar to get Kawhi (and he was on an expiring).

Not quite all-nba yet, but guys like Ingram (for Davis) and Shai (for George) had that potential. Simmons was moved for Harden. Granted that one's unique due to Simmons' dry market at the time.

But the market dictates everything. Right now it feels like the Nets don't have much leverage. But, if the Nets are able to gain some leverage back in negotiations by proving they can convince KD to come back.. then a package deal with Pascal going the other way may be the only one that can get it done.

Personally I would walk away. But I'm not a GM. KD is a pretty special player to give up on. And it could mean the difference between contending for a title, or just kind of being stuck int he mud for awhile.

different scenarios ... that team with demar and kyle had peaked... our team hasn't contrary to what everyone said at the start of last year... and as evidenced by this past season... Siakam and Fred haven't peaked. Siakam especially has not peaked.

It isn't like we would be trading trash by trading og and trent and tons of picks.... those players are much better than the players that utah will get for Mitchell... Ignore the potential pick asks for now. Just look at the players involved. Rudy got no real players of value. Mitchell they are talking about wanting quickley, grimes, fournier for the salary, maybe toppin.


Toppin is OK he isn't all that. OG is significantly better than any of those players I just mentioned. Trent is up there as well....

Gotta stop comparing each trade to the last we made its not the same. Kawhi was younger... frankly there was talk then of.. do we really want to pay demar given that he can't play defence and is a one way player?.... its just different.

[Kagemusha]

so what are you suggesting we trade then?

No one.
We can't do this trade with the Nets.
They're asking for the moon and we can't blame them.

[TrueTorontoFan]

No one.
We can't do this trade with the Nets.
They're asking for the moon and we can't blame them.

I mean if you are asking for what are the chances... who knows it comes down to what KD feels like. Because if they lose Kyrie for nothing at the end of the season then they may not be happy.


But if you are of the mind set that its a futile experiment then time to close up the thread and move on to next targets.


Realistically it comes down to how KD is feeling.

[planetmars]

different scenarios ... that team with demar and kyle had peaked... our team hasn't contrary to what everyone said at the start of last year... and as evidenced by this past season... Siakam and Fred haven't peaked. Siakam especially has not peaked.

It isn't like we would be trading trash by trading og and trent and tons of picks.... those players are much better than the players that utah will get for Mitchell... Ignore the potential pick asks for now. Just look at the players involved. Rudy got no real players of value. Mitchell they are talking about wanting quickley, grimes, fournier for the salary, maybe toppin.


Toppin is OK he isn't all that. OG is significantly better than any of those players I just mentioned. Trent is up there as well....

Gotta stop comparing each trade to the last we made its not the same. Kawhi was younger... frankly there was talk then of.. do we really want to pay demar given that he can't play defence and is a one way player?.... its just different.

You go into the Mitchell and Gobert deals.. I'm mainly talking about KD. He's a super star.. ie, top 5-7 player in the league. Sure fire hall of famer. A guy that can elevate a team into a contender by just playing for them. Mitchell and Gobert are stars, but not super stars. Neither makes you a contender right away.

Kawhi was one of those top 5-7 guys as well. And he was disgruntled. Only listed LA as his team of choice. And was on an expiring contract. We still ended up trading an all-star / all-nba for him. And many believe that was Masai's best trade ever (including me by the way).

The Raptors were in a jam. They got swept again with the same core, but DeMar did not peak that year. This past season he was on the All-NBA second team, and for most of the year was on the MVP ladder. He had a legit season.

Siakam is younger and was less experienced. But DeMar was 29 when he got moved for Kawhi. Pascal is 28.

Even though the market has dried up for KD.. more so because the Nets aren't getting what they want for him. I just think if they see OG and Gary they likely consider that a low ball offer.. I mean that's worse than what we paid for Kawhi. Again Kawhi was a rental. KD has 4 more years on his deal.

The age is sort of relevant, but it's been reported that KD's age isn't a factor for teams that are inquiring about him. What they are concerned about is if he'll play for the team that trades for him.. just like most were concerned with Kawhi that season. Kawhi was coming off a strange injury ridden season too. Did anyone really know if he was going to play into that 2018-2019 season? Could he play? It was a risk. For KD it's less of a risk. He's not injured. And his achilles injury took him away from the game for a whole season to rest.

This is just devil's advocate. I hope KD is available for some combination of OG, Gary and Fred with a few picks. I just don't see it likely anymore. I think the Nets would be better off to hold on to KD for another season, even if he refuses to play. Philly did that with Simmons and still got Harden out of it. It's smart of the Raptors to tread waters until it plays out some more. But I just have this feeling that if the Raptors got KD, Pascal would be part of the out going package.