The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[Mapko]

A championship not being guaranteed is no reason to stop trying to improve the roster.

Are we better with KD or with Trent, OG and a bunch of FRP's that are going to end up being in the 20's?

Im perfectly OK with KD for Trent & OG, its just those(UNPROTECTED) FRPs in 4-5 yrs that make me very nervous

[TrueTorontoFan]

You go into the Mitchell and Gobert deals.. I'm mainly talking about KD. He's a super star.. ie, top 5-7 player in the league. Sure fire hall of famer. A guy that can elevate a team into a contender by just playing for them. Mitchell and Gobert are stars, but not super stars. Neither makes you a contender right away.

Kawhi was one of those top 5-7 guys as well. And he was disgruntled. Only listed LA as his team of choice. And was on an expiring contract. We still ended up trading an all-star / all-nba for him. And many believe that was Masai's best trade ever (including me by the way).

The Raptors were in a jam. They got swept again with the same core, but DeMar did not peak that year. This past season he was on the All-NBA second team, and for most of the year was on the MVP ladder. He had a legit season.

Siakam is younger and was less experienced. But DeMar was 29 when he got moved for Kawhi. Pascal is 28.

Even though the market has dried up for KD.. more so because the Nets aren't getting what they want for him. I just think if they see OG and Gary they likely consider that a low ball offer.. I mean that's worse than what we paid for Kawhi. Again Kawhi was a rental. KD has 4 more years on his deal.

The age is sort of relevant, but it's been reported that KD's age isn't a factor for teams that are inquiring about him. What they are concerned about is if he'll play for the team that trades for him.. just like most were concerned with Kawhi that season. Kawhi was coming off a strange injury ridden season too. Did anyone really know if he was going to play into that 2018-2019 season? Could he play? It was a risk. For KD it's less of a risk. He's not injured. And his achilles injury took him away from the game for a whole season to rest.

This is just devil's advocate. I hope KD is available for some combination of OG, Gary and Fred with a few picks. I just don't see it likely anymore. I think the Nets would be better off to hold on to KD for another season, even if he refuses to play. Philly did that with Simmons and still got Harden out of it. It's smart of the Raptors to tread waters until it plays out some more. But I just have this feeling that if the Raptors got KD, Pascal would be part of the out going package.

Right but Mitchell has been the most prolific playoff scorer for the past 3 years.

Like define super star. It isn't like we are trading for Luka or Tatum. Would you not say they are better than KD today?

KD is 34 yeras old and you are going to have to factor that in and the health ... to me that factors in more than the whole notion of him staying or not. He will stay more than likely if he can win here.


Either way without Siakam I am honestly not sure if that team can team remaining is good enough to beat the Celtics..... If you remove og and add Siakam then yes you likely can go all the way. The thing is KD is going to need to be load managed during the season to make this a sustainable 2-3 year run. I think you can SQUEEEEZE 3 years. Also if you are paying picks anyways ...then I am not giving up the raptors best player respectfully.

AT the time I didn't really talk as much on this forum I was more of a lurker but I did feel like Lowry was always the better player. This is why I have advocated for Fred being potentially outgoing as a MAXIMUM. Siakam's playmaking and offensive versatility along with Barnes will be needed. Siakams' overall durability will be needed to load manage durant over the course of 3 years.

[planetmars]

Right but Mitchell has been the most prolific playoff scorer for the past 3 years.

Like define super star. It isn't like we are trading for Luka or Tatum. Would you not say they are better than KD today?

KD is 34 yeras old and you are going to have to factor that in and the health ... to me that factors in more than the whole notion of him staying or not. He will stay more than likely if he can win here.


Either way without Siakam I am honestly not sure if that team can team remaining is good enough to beat the Celtics..... If you remove og and add Siakam then yes you likely can go all the way. The thing is KD is going to need to be load managed during the season to make this a sustainable 2-3 year run. I think you can SQUEEEEZE 3 years. Also if you are paying picks anyways ...then I am not giving up the raptors best player respectfully.

AT the time I didn't really talk as much on this forum I was more of a lurker but I did feel like Lowry was always the better player. This is why I have advocated for Fred being potentially outgoing as a MAXIMUM. Siakam's playmaking and offensive versatility along with Barnes will be needed. Siakams' overall durability will be needed to load manage durant over the course of 3 years.

Tatum is not better than KD, no. Luka is yes. KD is a super star, full stop. Even at 34 years old. Mitchell is definitely not a super star. He's a 1-way player that can score in spades. He's Bradley Beal but much worse on defense. Mitchell doesn't scare anyone. KD does. Tatum has the potential to be better. But he's not yet. Just look at his efficiency last season or in the playoffs. He costed them games. It was the Boston role players that stepped up.

I'm not saying we should trade Pascal. But I think he'd have to be in the package to get KD. If you don't want to part with Pascal then you as a manger don't make the trade. And that's fine. I wouldn't do it either. You're also not Masai though. Pascal could still be on the table. It was Barnes that became untouchable, not Pascal based on media reports.

Masai may feel like he has a better window for success with KD over Pascal and makes the trade. Assuming it was the best he could do. There is a chance Masai doesn't want to resign Pascal after his contract is over, as he could be up for a super max. That's a scary thought. Pascal is great, but not that great.

[Kagemusha]

I mean if you are asking for what are the chances... who knows it comes down to what KD feels like. Because if they lose Kyrie for nothing at the end of the season then they may not be happy.


But if you are of the mind set that its a futile experiment then time to close up the thread and move on to next targets.


Realistically it comes down to how KD is feeling.

I just can't think of any offer for KD that can be a win for both us and the Nets.
But you guys are free to continue discussing hypothetical trades coz who knows, we might strike gold again.

[A.I]

I just can't think of any offer for KD that can be a win for both us and the Nets.
But you guys are free to continue discussing hypothetical trades coz who knows, we might strike gold again.

Thats the problem. KD requested a trade. Nets aren't winning the trade. When a player requests a trade publicly, that team loses all their leverage.

[LJ2]

Im perfectly OK with KD for Trent & OG, its just those(UNPROTECTED) FRPs in 4-5 yrs that make me very nervous

As long as KD is on the roster, Raps are going for championships. Meaning they spare no expense to put a winner around him so those FRP's aren't anything special.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Tatum is not better than KD, no. Luka is yes. KD is a super star, full stop. Even at 34 years old. Mitchell is definitely not a super star. He's a 1-way player that can score in spades. He's Bradley Beal but much worse on defense. Mitchell doesn't scare anyone. KD does. Tatum has the potential to be better. But he's not yet. Just look at his efficiency last season or in the playoffs. He costed them games. It was the Boston role players that stepped up.

I'm not saying we should trade Pascal. But I think he'd have to be in the package to get KD. If you don't want to part with Pascal then you as a manger don't make the trade. And that's fine. I wouldn't do it either. You're also not Masai though. Pascal could still be on the table. It was Barnes that became untouchable, not Pascal based on media reports.

Masai may feel like he has a better window for success with KD over Pascal and makes the trade. Assuming it was the best he could do. There is a chance Masai doesn't want to resign Pascal after his contract is over, as he could be up for a super max. That's a scary thought. Pascal is great, but not that great.

.........tatum isn't better than KD right now?... did you not watch the playoffs? You realize tatum is a 98th percentile offensive player and 85th percentile defence.


and no I wasn't suggesting mitchell is a super star. KD is the same level of offensive player by the adv. metrics but worse defensively and Tatum is significantly younger.


In terms of me being the gm or president of the raptors no I am not but again I wouldn't trade either and I have already explained the reason why. If KD reiterates he is done with that situation... then the nets will trade him to the highest bidder.. simple as that. I don't think we have to outbid ourselves to get KD. If Who are we outbidding who would be the teams involved. If the current players are any sort of indication we kind of already know that we have a competitive package with out Siakam or Barnes. If the Nets want to be that stubborn after he reiterates he wants out.. then you walk away and keep it moving simple as that. Let them deal with the fall out.


My point was that you brought up mitchell and gobert as examples but completely ignored the actual players mitchell is being reported to be traded for and the players rudy got paid for and purely just ignoring that aspect of a potential trade. I outlined a simple point. OG and Trent or even OG and FVV is significantly better than those trade packages... we can't act like we are giving garbage ....removing pick equity of course.


How often are super stars traded for equal value? Furthermore, how often are 34 year old superstars traded for equivalent value. Lastly, why is it such a bad deal or you are just saying they wouldn't be happy with it... welp ifthe man truly wants out it won't matter.


IF you don't think KD truly wants out then again I said before... no point in chatting about this subject move on to the next one.

[Primer]

.........tatum isn't better than KD right now?... did you not watch the playoffs? You realize tatum is a 98th percentile offensive player and 85th percentile defence.


and no I wasn't suggesting mitchell is a super star. KD is the same level of offensive player by the adv. metrics but worse defensively and Tatum is significantly younger.


In terms of me being the gm or president of the raptors no I am not but again I wouldn't trade either and I have already explained the reason why. If KD reiterates he is done with that situation... then the nets will trade him to the highest bidder.. simple as that. I don't think we have to outbid ourselves to get KD. If Who are we outbidding who would be the teams involved. If the current players are any sort of indication we kind of already know that we have a competitive package with out Siakam or Barnes. If the Nets want to be that stubborn after he reiterates he wants out.. then you walk away and keep it moving simple as that. Let them deal with the fall out.


My point was that you brought up mitchell and gobert as examples but completely ignored the actual players mitchell is being reported to be traded for and the players rudy got paid for and purely just ignoring that aspect of a potential trade. I outlined a simple point. OG and Trent or even OG and FVV is significantly better than those trade packages... we can't act like we are giving garbage ....removing pick equity of course.


How often are super stars traded for equal value? Furthermore, how often are 34 year old superstars traded for equivalent value. Lastly, why is it such a bad deal or you are just saying they wouldn't be happy with it... welp ifthe man truly wants out it won't matter.


IF you don't think KD truly wants out then again I said before... no point in chatting about this subject move on to the next one.

Woah, KD is a shit ton better than Tatum.

You really think Tatum is better than KD? Or did I read this wrong?

[GinobilisBaldSpot]

The slowest few days in sports you say? I guess Espn had to write something. It’s a rehash of the the last 20 big trades and how they might inform a KD trade but really it’s just a list of trades. That said, as much as I knew Masai fleeced the Knicks (part 1) in the Carmelo deal but I didn’t realize one of the picks in the trade became Jamal Murray.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-durant-future

Player transaction trees are always fun.. if the GTJ and OG + filler for KD happens, well we’re essentially looking at Greivis Vasquez + filler for Durant LOL. Ironically enough I’m pretty sure there’s a Greivis quote saying KD would bring a ring to Toronto ????

[TrueTorontoFan]

Woah, KD is a shit ton better than Tatum.

You really think Tatum is better than KD? Or did I read this wrong?

I am saying that I would take tatum over KD in a trade today because of age and injury risk. Yes. I also think Tatum is more valueable on a trade market

[Hotshot]

Woah, KD is a shit ton better than Tatum.

Was.

[bertarapsfan]

Player transaction trees are always fun.. if the GTJ and OG + filler for KD happens, well we’re essentially looking at Greivis Vasquez + filler for Durant LOL. Ironically enough I’m pretty sure there’s a Greivis quote saying KD would bring a ring to Toronto ????

Their was a time were we thought Greivis could help us get Durant as they were high school team mates and good friends

[A.I]

Was.

He still is, but if we have to trade for one or the other, I'd say Tatum because of what TrueTorontoFan said. Tatum's age and lower injury risk.

[Primer]

Was.

Still is by a good amount.

[LJ2]

Nets are clearly in less of a rush to trade Kyrie and KD than RR. At this point I'm just hoping something gets done before the start of the new season.