The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[Kagemusha]

Yep. Marks did exactly what KD and Kyrie wanted. He signed DeAndre Jordan. He brought in James Harden. He traded away Levert and Allen. He gave up massive draft picks.

But… KD, and especially Kyrie, didn’t hold up their end of the bargain: win championships.

In fact, Kyrie scared off Harden to the point where he took the drastic step of making a trade demand… holding Marks hostage with the threat of losing him for nothing, which would be a disastrous waste of all those assets they used to acquire the guy that KD and Kyrie wanted.

I suppose the main arguments against Marks could be the hiring of a rookie coach, Steve Nash… who has no track record of winning any championships at any level and trading Harden for Simmons instead of maybe getting back players who could have immediately helped them in the playoffs last year, like CJ McCollum, RoCo and Powell. Those are smaller quibbles, though.

Should he have just signed Kyrie to the long term deal? Probably. It was a dumb move to flip flop now. But I think that was a Joe Tsai being fed up directive that Marks didn’t have any leeway in.

Lol
Kyrie did not scare off Harden, even Harden himself admitted that.
He'd always wanted to go to Philly.
He wanted to be traded there from Houston.
Look, that guy is not committed to winning,
why would he care that the Nets is losing because of Kyrie?

[golden]

Lol
Kyrie did not scare off Harden, even Harden himself admitted that.
He'd always wanted to go to Philly.
He wanted to be traded there from Houston.
Look, that guy is not committed to winning,
why would he care that the Nets is losing because of Kyrie?

There were all kinds of reports claiming that Harden was concerned about Kyrie's availability for the playoffs... including being able to play in Toronto.

But hey, even if you don't believe the reports and that Harden was always going to Philly, then who is to blame for Marks bringing in Harden. That seems a lot like Marks bowing to KD's request to bring in his buddy and KD teaming up with yet another MVP calibre player to take the easy path to a chip. That's Marks doing exactly what people are complaining he didn't do... kiss his superstar's ass.

The big problem here is that KD didn't do his part and keep his super-friends in check, like Lebron did with the Heat. That's the other side of player empowerment that the player signs up for. The main superstar is also the top recruiter / shadow GM for the franchise. KD failed miserably with Harden... who is supposed to be a good, close friend. KD is supposed to know the inside scoop that Harden was a rental, so he basically effed the franchise by forcing them to give up a sh*t ton of assets for Harden.

[Primer]

https://www.nba.com/news/kawhi-leona...season-process

I don't buy that for one second and you shouldn't either. I'm sure Lakers were still in the mix but we weren't because we're not in LA.

[Primer]

Marks could redeem himself with some smart trades of KD and Kyrie, he's still got the job, but until that happens he's just a massive failure in my eyes.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Lol
Kyrie did not scare off Harden, even Harden himself admitted that.
He'd always wanted to go to Philly.
He wanted to be traded there from Houston.
Look, that guy is not committed to winning,
why would he care that the Nets is losing because of Kyrie?

kyrie basically said we don't need him right before they traded for him and the city vibed with harden more and Kyrie got a little jealous this has been discussed in the nets realm a few times.

if he didn't care about winning he could have stayed and gotten paid more or left for philly in the off season.. was philly always on his mind?probably yes but I think he gave the nets an honest chance because of his buddy KD who he still plays within the off season.... its not like he will come out and say

ohhh KYRIE IS WACKO... yeah no the nba is a brotherhood.

[Kagemusha]

There were all kinds of reports claiming that Harden was concerned about Kyrie's availability for the playoffs... including being able to play in Toronto.

But hey, even if you don't believe the reports and that Harden was always going to Philly, then who is to blame for Marks bringing in Harden. That seems a lot like Marks bowing to KD's request to bring in his buddy and KD teaming up with yet another MVP calibre player to take the easy path to a chip. That's Marks doing exactly what people are complaining he didn't do... kiss his superstar's ass.

The big problem here is that KD didn't do his part and keep his super-friends in check, like Lebron did with the Heat. That's the other side of player empowerment that the player signs up for. The main superstar is also the top recruiter / shadow GM for the franchise. KD failed miserably with Harden... who is supposed to be a good, close friend. KD is supposed to know the inside scoop that Harden was a rental, so he basically effed the franchise by forcing them to give up a sh*t ton of assets for Harden.

For sure.
KD and Marks definitely messed up.

One reason l don't buy into the belief that trading for KD will benefit the Raptors.
Sorry, KD is a great at baskeyball per se
His off court issues and personality though is a big red flag.
Kawhi had some issues, but he was always focused and is super mentally tough. KD bends easily, he can't carry a team and he has proven that so many times.
KD is not an alpha.
Many would think that he is, including himself but truth is that he is a Robin.
He was not at OKC, no one there was.
Steph was the driver at Golden State.
KD tried to be the alpha in Brooklyn, and got them nowhere.

Getting him will not work coz we don't have a Batman. Yet.

[Kagemusha]

kyrie basically said we don't need him right before they traded for him and the city vibed with harden more and Kyrie got a little jealous this has been discussed in the nets realm a few times.

if he didn't care about winning he could have stayed and gotten paid more or left for philly in the off season.. was philly always on his mind?probably yes but I think he gave the nets an honest chance because of his buddy KD who he still plays within the off season.... its not like he will come out and say

ohhh KYRIE IS WACKO... yeah no the nba is a brotherhood.

James is all about having fun.
He was not happy in Houston anymore hence the trade request.

Brooklyn wasn't his call,
even he was surprised by that.
Houston and Phila were already into deep negotiations before Nets entered the picture and scooped him away.
(according to him)

[A.I]

For sure.
KD and Marks definitely messed up.

One reason l don't buy into the belief that trading for KD will benefit the Raptors.
Sorry, KD is a great at baskeyball per se
His off court issues and personality though is a big red flag.
Kawhi had some issues, but he was always focused and is super mentally tough. KD bends easily, he can't carry a team and he has proven that so many times.
KD is not an alpha.
Many would think that he is, including himself but truth is that he is a Robin.
He was not at OKC, no one there was.
Steph was the driver at Golden State.
KD tried to be the alpha in Brooklyn, and got them nowhere.

Getting him will not work coz we don't have a Batman. Yet.

KD and Kawhi are similar. Neither of them are leaders, but have shown the ability to be so good that doesn't matter.

Kawhi has never shown to be a leader. On the Spurs, he had Duncan, Manu, Parker and Pop. Things got dicey when those 3 players retired and he eventually wanted out. In Toronto, Lowry was the leader and Marc as well after he got here. Kawhi just did his thing as the superstar.

He hasn't done anything outside of blowing a 3-1 lead as a Clipper.

KD isn't a leader either, Raptors have Fred for that, but if he gets traded for KD, it might get iffy.

[TrueTorontoFan]

KD and Kawhi are similar. Neither of them are leaders, but have shown the ability to be so good that doesn't matter.

Kawhi has never shown to be a leader. On the Spurs, he had Duncan, Manu, Parker and Pop. Things got dicey when those 3 players retired and he eventually wanted out. In Toronto, Lowry was the leader and Marc as well after he got here. Kawhi just did his thing as the superstar.

He hasn't done anything outside of blowing a 3-1 lead as a Clipper.

KD isn't a leader either, Raptors have Fred for that, but if he gets traded for KD, it might get iffy.

thats an interesting point about kawhi... I would say lowry was definitely our leader.


If FVV gets traded you are for getting siakam and scottie

[Superjudge]

Marks could redeem himself with some smart trades of KD and Kyrie, he's still got the job, but until that happens he's just a massive failure in my eyes.

Not that you care, but my opinion of what you're saying here is this... you're speaking as guys did 15 years ago here. Sean Marks is a failure. How? He was handed a shitty hand. "On paper" means fuck all in real life. The Nets had so much garbage going on it wasn't funny. A championship team is almost ALWAYS firing on every cylinder from day one in training camp. Marks had some wannabe Alpha's on a team where they were either hurt or sitting and watching. One was fat and lazy. They didn't make the finals? Neither did 28 other groups, including the team with your Massiah running it. Are they all failed GM's?

[Hotshot]

lol

[The Great One]

lol

Quote from a famous man:

"They can keep dreaming, I dream too"

[TrueTorontoFan]

[Kagemusha]

Mike Luciano

[Primer]

Not that you care, but my opinion of what you're saying here is this... you're speaking as guys did 15 years ago here. Sean Marks is a failure. How? He was handed a shitty hand. "On paper" means fuck all in real life. The Nets had so much garbage going on it wasn't funny. A championship team is almost ALWAYS firing on every cylinder from day one in training camp. Marks had some wannabe Alpha's on a team where they were either hurt or sitting and watching. One was fat and lazy. They didn't make the finals? Neither did 28 other groups, including the team with your Massiah running it. Are they all failed GM's?

I give a 0% chance that if Masai was GM, where KD and Kyrie forced their way onto your team of their own accord, that we he wouldn't have won a championship, likely several by now. Great GMs can manage stars. Marks can't. He's fine for a team like Sacramento but he shit the bed big time when 2 superstars fell into his lap solely because his team is located in NYC and they wanted to live in NYC.