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  • #31
    Primer wrote: View Post


    Really parsing hairs to argue 0.348 isn't 0.350.

    He shot his career average last season.

    That's a lot better than Brooks career average and a lot better than Brooks shot last season.

    That's all he needs to be to win the final roster spot over Brooks.
    Brooks doesn't have a meaningful career average at the NBA level. He has a 33% success rate over 70 games. And a 39% success rate over about the same sample size in the G-League.

    They aren't picking that final roster spot based on small sample shooting. They'll be evaluating who they think is a better shooter (with all context considered) and picking that guy. Maybe that's Juancho! I'd have no issue with it if so. I don't however think it's like some obvious choice where one guy is a dominating shooter and the other couldn't hit water from a boat. The only thing Juancho really has is his mediocre shooting has a bigger sample, which is a knife that cuts both ways - if they want mediocrity in that skillset, it gives him the edge, if they are hoping for upside (something they basically always go for with these end of roster spots, just ask Isaac Bonga and Sam Dekker) it hurts him.
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    • #32
      DanH wrote: View Post

      Brooks doesn't have a meaningful career average at the NBA level. He has a 33% success rate over 70 games. And a 39% success rate over about the same sample size in the G-League.

      They aren't picking that final roster spot based on small sample shooting. They'll be evaluating who they think is a better shooter (with all context considered) and picking that guy. Maybe that's Juancho! I'd have no issue with it if so. I don't however think it's like some obvious choice where one guy is a dominating shooter and the other couldn't hit water from a boat. The only thing Juancho really has is his mediocre shooting has a bigger sample, which is a knife that cuts both ways - if they want mediocrity in that skillset, it gives him the edge, if they are hoping for upside (something they basically always go for with these end of roster spots, just ask Isaac Bonga and Sam Dekker) it hurts him.
      Upside would be his shooting performance with Utah last season.

      17 games playing 17.5 minutes per game shooting 0.438 3P% on 2.8 3PA.

      Seems like in the right situation his shooting can excel.

      He's also a pretty good rebounder, whereas Armoni doesn't really bring anything else to the table.

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      • #33
        Primer wrote: View Post

        Upside would be his shooting performance with Utah last season.

        17 games playing 17.5 minutes per game shooting 0.438 3P% on 2.8 3PA.

        Seems like in the right situation his shooting can excel.

        He's also a pretty good rebounder, whereas Armoni doesn't really bring anything else to the table.
        So now we love the small samples?

        Look, absolutely, they might decide he has just as much upside as Brooks. They won't do so based on 50 shot attempts. This is all I'm saying.
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        • #34
          DanH wrote: View Post

          So now we love the small samples?

          Look, absolutely, they might decide he has just as much upside as Brooks. They won't do so based on 50 shot attempts. This is all I'm saying.
          More upside than Brooks, also currently better than Brooks.

          0.350 3P% and good rebounding is perfectly fine for 15th man, and I only mentioned the small most recent sample because you implied Brooks has upside and Juancho doesn't.

          If he shoots his career average, or exactly what he shot last season, great.

          If he shoots as well as he did in Utah, even better.

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          • #35
            Primer wrote: View Post

            More upside than Brooks, also currently better than Brooks.

            0.350 3P% and good rebounding is perfectly fine for 15th man, and I only mentioned the small most recent sample because you implied Brooks has upside and Juancho doesn't.

            If he shoots his career average, or exactly what he shot last season, great.

            If he shoots as well as he did in Utah, even better.
            Agreed! Similarly, if Brooks shoots what he did between the G-League and NBA, great. He'll do it on a volume that will actually space the floor too.

            Why you would think Juancho has more upside as a shooter is a little odd. He's 27.

            I agree, as 15th guy, we don't need elite shooting. But comparing the two, I'm not seeing why one is so blatantly obvious a choice over the other for the 15th spot.

            Anyway, if it's that obvious, we'll find out in a couple days when the Raptors waive Brooks to avoid his bigger guarantee.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • #36
              DanH wrote: View Post

              Agreed! Similarly, if Brooks shoots what he did between the G-League and NBA, great. He'll do it on a volume that will actually space the floor too.

              Why you would think Juancho has more upside as a shooter is a little odd. He's 27.

              I agree, as 15th guy, we don't need elite shooting. But comparing the two, I'm not seeing why one is so blatantly obvious a choice over the other for the 15th spot.

              Anyway, if it's that obvious, we'll find out in a couple days when the Raptors waive Brooks to avoid his bigger guarantee.
              Brooks is 24, so their age is a wash to me. He'll be entering his 4th season as a pro and he was a 4 year player in college. I think he is what he is, same as Juancho.

              G League is also meaningless, so that fact you have to keep referencing it shows how unimpressive he's been in the NBA.

              G League success is not a predictor of NBA success, G League failure is a predictor of nba failure.

              Brooks isn't going to get 26 mpg and 8 3PA per game like he did on a tanking Houston to get his shot going.

              Juancho has been pretty damn good from 3 every time he's gotten over 2 attempts per game, so he's perfect for a low volume bench role.

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              • #37
                Primer wrote: View Post

                Brooks is 24, so their age is a wash to me. He'll be entering his 4th season as a pro and he was a 4 year player in college. I think he is what he is, same as Juancho.

                G League is also meaningless, so that fact you have to keep referencing it shows how unimpressive he's been in the NBA.

                G League success is not a predictor of NBA success, G League failure is a predictor of nba failure.

                Brooks isn't going to get 26 mpg and 8 3PA per game like he did on a tanking Houston to get his shot going.

                Juancho has been pretty damn good from 3 every time he's gotten over 2 attempts per game, so he's perfect for a low volume bench role.
                OK. Like I said, we won't have to wait long to find out if the front office thinks this is a real training camp battle.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • #38
                  Bottomline, these are some pretty good options to have. Kinda depends if you want the taller less-mobile shooter, or the smaller but more dynamic one. Or both?

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                  • #39
                    The time honoured RR tradition: heated debate over the 15th man.

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                    • #40
                      golden wrote: View Post
                      The time honoured RR tradition: heated debate over the 15th man.
                      We can laugh but the 15th man the Raptors chose to go with Bonga was completely useless last season. Really should have stuck with Ish Wainright at least he could have hockey checked Harden in the playoffs when he was going off.

                      At least now whoever that 15th man is going to be is going to be able to do something out there.

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                      • #41
                        Hotshot wrote: View Post

                        We can laugh but the 15th man the Raptors chose to go with Bonga was completely useless last season. Really should have stuck with Ish Wainright at least he could have hockey checked Harden in the playoffs when he was going off.

                        At least now whoever that 15th man is going to be is going to be able to do something out there.
                        Don't forget famous 15th man FVV
                        To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                        • #42
                          bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

                          Don't forget famous 15th man FVV
                          Yep. Lots of posters here (not me) dismissed FVV at the time just like they are dismissing Banton today ("oh I don't see him as an NBA player").

                          Got to be careful who you dismissing too soon otherwise someone like Brissett who was also on the fringe ends up being a solid rotation piece somewhere else.

                          It's not only young players. Someone can come back in their mid 20's like a PJ Tucker and remain a very hot commodity a decade later.

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                          • #43
                            LOL you win Primer! They did waive Brooks!
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • #44
                              DanH wrote: View Post
                              LOL you win Primer! They did waive Brooks!
                              The Juancho era has begun

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                              • #45
                                I do not really know why we signed him.

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