Everything Bench Beauties

[Kagemusha]

Yeah the pull-up midrange is a critical shot to have in your bag, especially in the clutch and playoffs. I just don’t know we need it in the starting lineup when we should be milking OG’s mismatch.

I am suddenly seeing why some are concerned about 3-point shooting up and down the lineup, but if Trent is remedying that as a starter…

We need shot variety.
OG will not get favourable matchup every time.

Why are some people so obsessed with the 3 ball.
Even GSW utilizes midrange a lot.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Trent doesn't even take 3's at the rate you would want though he likes to step in... he is lethal in catch and shoot but he likes to iso and go in and take a crazy off balance shot against two defenders.

[The Claw Reborn]

Another biased take. Lol
Fadeways are his shot, ie that's his natural shooting form.
As long as he 'takes them with decent efficiences' then what's the problem?

GTJ was 38% from three last season and 41% FG is a very decent clip for a 4th-5th offensive option is just fine. He is 23 years old turning 24 on Jan. 2023. He is far from being the problem of this team but yet always considered the scapegoat.

People if they are just being honest should focus their attention to the two guys here who’s been here with this organization the longest….Siakam and VanVleet.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Another biased take. Lol
Fadeways are his shot, ie that's his natural shooting form.
As long as he 'takes them with decent efficiences' then what's the problem?

how is Otto being a career better shooter a biased take.. I have seen him take spot up 3's.. you really want me to pull up the clips of him shooting a spot up...this is goofy man. You are now pulling bs out of your tail end.


https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFI...t&section=game


That link was from the last game ..... look at his 3's when he has no one around him vs ones where he has two guys on him.. go look at all 8 field goals.. he does an off balance fadeaway BECAUSE he has two defenders on him not because its his shooting motion.. MAYBE he has a tiny fade BACK... but it isn't the same..

If you want to counter my point use logic .... but just saying oh biased take and saying a bold face lie or something that you just made up,



I have said multiple times GTJ and FVV are my main issues in terms of the style of play but GTJ is younger and if he has upside then yes I will be pissed about his defence. I care about defence first and his defensive short comings aren't just because of what he is asked to do.. he isn't asked to be out of position by gambling that is something you made up.

FVV I am willing to give him 2 months to see what Nurse and what he is doing. Is he chucking like before or is he not.

Same with GTJ I am willing to give any player a chance to start a season but that doesn't mean I am not watching. I literally did a whole film study on his entire year last year looking at every one of his shots all the defensive possessions. Did it when I had time for a friend. You keep defending FVV and GTJ the entire damn time for their stuff last year. Makes me wonder if you watched the basketball? or did you just watch some highlights on youtube and listen to ESPN.

[Kagemusha]

how is Otto being a career better shooter a biased take.. I have seen him take spot up 3's.. you really want me to pull up the clips of him shooting a spot up...this is goofy man. You are now pulling bs out of your tail end.


https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFI...t&section=game


That link was from the last game ..... look at his 3's when he has no one around him vs ones where he has two guys on him.. go look at all 8 field goals.. he does an off balance fadeaway BECAUSE he has two defenders on him not because its his shooting motion.. MAYBE he has a tiny fade BACK... but it isn't the same..

If you want to counter my point use logic .... but just saying oh biased take and saying a bold face lie or something that you just made up,



I have said multiple times GTJ and FVV are my main issues in terms of the style of play but GTJ is younger and if he has upside then yes I will be pissed about his defence. I care about defence first and his defensive short comings aren't just because of what he is asked to do.. he isn't asked to be out of position by gambling that is something you made up.

FVV I am willing to give him 2 months to see what Nurse and what he is doing. Is he chucking like before or is he not.

Same with GTJ I am willing to give any player a chance to start a season but that doesn't mean I am not watching. I literally did a whole film study on his entire year last year looking at every one of his shots all the defensive possessions. Did it when I had time for a friend. You keep defending FVV and GTJ the entire damn time for their stuff last year. Makes me wonder if you watched the basketball? or did you just watch some highlights on youtube and listen to ESPN.

Yes, i have been watching Gary coz l have been always intrigued by him since he came to the Raps and saw how the Blazers fan were so vocal of their support of him.
To me he is a slight upgrade from Norm, they have similar style of play but Gary is younger.
Dude, I have multiple fantasy teams and I dissect almost every player, of course I watch basketball. Lol
The difference is that l don't question theor shooting form. Lol

The problem with you is that you have made up your mind that Gary has to go.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yes, i have been watching Gary coz l have been always intrigued by him since he came to the Raps and saw how the Blazers fan were so vocal of their support of him.
To me he is a slight upgrade from Norm, they have similar style of play but Gary is younger.
Dude, I have multiple fantasy teams and I dissect almost every player, of course I watch basketball. Lol
The difference is that l don't question theor shooting form. Lol

The problem with you is that you have made up your mind that Gary has to go.

He isn't a straight upgrade on Norm. I said that he is a younger version of norm.. Norm was the older refined version of him. He had higher upside than Norm because his offensive game was norm 3 years ago. Norm was and is better at penetrating through to the rim but Norm sucked at finishing at the rim until the last two years but he got to the rim. Norms biggest issues SINCE college was he missed out on playmaking plays because he had the tendency to drive with his head down not up.

Norm offensively was a better player when the trade happened. I am underlining the key points to make it more visible for you to read. GTJ had higher defensive upside. Does that mean I made my mind up on him NO. I thought the move was the right move and I have been vocal so again you are pulling BS out of your butt to fit what ever narrative you want. I supported the move but I had my concerns based on the way he played when he first got here but I said xyz is what he needs to improve on to be the best version of himself for him and for the team.

Why I am being a bit more stern and assertive here is because you are incorrect with what I said in the beginning. I think there is nothing wrong with pointing out what any and every player needs to work on to improve and yet not have made up your mind on that player. I have said again and again and again. GTJ needs to become a better decision maker on offence, gain better latteral movement for both ends of the ball and drive to the hoop. He can gamble sometimes sure but gamble less and keep in mind his positioning on the defensive end so that he isn't giving up driving lanes as much. It is preaseason but yeah. I am and was ok with trading him becuase of the contract situation and because if you can use ...say him and FVV to get a major upgrade on talent... and talent that fits the 6'9 vision then yes... so for example FVV and Trent was one of the packages I proposed for getting Mitchell AND Durant. Unless you truly think that Trent is as good as Mitchell offensively ... which again is either a bold face lie, or bordering on delusional because the metrics prove otherwise. Defensively yes he is better than mitchell but the argument was focused on getting closer to a 6'9 vision even if you get worse at one specific spot defensively the rest of the spots were going to potentially make up for it.. or at least that was the thinking. It is a similar kind of package I would propose for going after Shai. Whether they take it is a different story but that is what I would be looking at.

Now If GTJ improves on all the stuff or when he has made good decision making then yes I praise those improvements. I am not just going to blindingly like GTJ just for the sake of it. His biggest upside that many posters who are squarely in his camp talk about is his youth ... that is a very valid point.. but then those same posters will say lies you included.. to suggest he is actually a good defender and in fact one of our best defenders. I have heard people say bs about him being ab etter defender than even pascal which is just flat out stupid.


and for FVV for all the crap I gave and potentially will give him.. defensively he has been good enough to the point (WHEN HEALTHY) that you have to give him credit regarding his point of attack defence.


Don't put words in my mouth. You can assume all you want about how I felt about GTJ but you could very well be wrong. It's like Boucher... not the biggest boucher fan because of his basketball IQ but when he played within his role and started to cut more I stopped bitching as much.




Last thing to add. Watching basketball for "fantasy" basketball isn't the same as doing a film study. You realize that right? There are levels. I am sure everyone here and many others have a fantasy basketball team. Heck I have a friend who loves fantasy and was saying we need to sign melo because he would solve our problems...maybe you agree with that guy but I think its a pretty asinine take.

[Kagemusha]

He isn't a straight upgrade on Norm. I said that he is a younger version of norm.. Norm was the older refined version of him. He had higher upside than Norm because his offensive game was norm 3 years ago. Norm was and is better at penetrating through to the rim but Norm sucked at finishing at the rim until the last two years but he got to the rim. Norms biggest issues SINCE college was he missed out on playmaking plays because he had the tendency to drive with his head down not up.

Norm offensively was a better player when the trade happened. I am underlining the key points to make it more visible for you to read. GTJ had higher defensive upside. Does that mean I made my mind up on him NO. I thought the move was the right move and I have been vocal so again you are pulling BS out of your butt to fit what ever narrative you want. I supported the move but I had my concerns based on the way he played when he first got here but I said xyz is what he needs to improve on to be the best version of himself for him and for the team.

Why I am being a bit more stern and assertive here is because you are incorrect with what I said in the beginning. I think there is nothing wrong with pointing out what any and every player needs to work on to improve and yet not have made up your mind on that player. I have said again and again and again. GTJ needs to become a better decision maker on offence, gain better latteral movement for both ends of the ball and drive to the hoop. He can gamble sometimes sure but gamble less and keep in mind his positioning on the defensive end so that he isn't giving up driving lanes as much. It is preaseason but yeah. I am and was ok with trading him becuase of the contract situation and because if you can use ...say him and FVV to get a major upgrade on talent... and talent that fits the 6'9 vision then yes... so for example FVV and Trent was one of the packages I proposed for getting Mitchell AND Durant. Unless you truly think that Trent is as good as Mitchell offensively ... which again is either a bold face lie, or bordering on delusional because the metrics prove otherwise. Defensively yes he is better than mitchell but the argument was focused on getting closer to a 6'9 vision even if you get worse at one specific spot defensively the rest of the spots were going to potentially make up for it.. or at least that was the thinking. It is a similar kind of package I would propose for going after Shai. Whether they take it is a different story but that is what I would be looking at.

Now If GTJ improves on all the stuff or when he has made good decision making then yes I praise those improvements. I am not just going to blindingly like GTJ just for the sake of it. His biggest upside that many posters who are squarely in his camp talk about is his youth ... that is a very valid point.. but then those same posters will say lies you included.. to suggest he is actually a good defender and in fact one of our best defenders. I have heard people say bs about him being ab etter defender than even pascal which is just flat out stupid.


and for FVV for all the crap I gave and potentially will give him.. defensively he has been good enough to the point (WHEN HEALTHY) that you have to give him credit regarding his point of attack defence.


Don't put words in my mouth. You can assume all you want about how I felt about GTJ but you could very well be wrong. It's like Boucher... not the biggest boucher fan because of his basketball IQ but when he played within his role and started to cut more I stopped bitching as much.




Last thing to add. Watching basketball for "fantasy" basketball isn't the same as doing a film study. You realize that right? There are levels. I am sure everyone here and many others have a fantasy basketball team. Heck I have a friend who loves fantasy and was saying we need to sign melo because he would solve our problems...maybe you agree with that guy but I think its a pretty asinine take.

Lol
and you are not putting words in my mouth besides strawmanning over and over. ?

Now you are changing your tune when l answered your original question in whether i watch basketball. Lol

Why keep bringing FVV and all other unrelated stuff.
Frustrated novel writer?

[TrueTorontoFan]

Lol
and you are not putting words in my mouth besides strawmanning over and over. ?

Now you are changing your tune when l answered your original question in whether i watch basketball. Lol

Why keep bringing FVV and all other unrelated stuff.
Frustrated novel writer?

I am not straw manning you said you watched it for fantasy which is different. Again, you are aware of that right? I didn't change my tune I outlined my full thoughts on Gary from start to finish why he frustrates me, and why I am patient even though I have expressed frustration. I haven't changed the fact that I am annoyed.

Gary's bad decision-making pisses me off and people pretending that he is good defensively is stupid. Flat out dumb. Does that mean he has peaked? No, but he needs to improve.

In the last few interactions when have I put words in your mouth? If I have ever my bad.. but I do try to at least ask you for clarity. Again if I have then sure.

I used FVV because someone else brought him up in response to the same message that you responded to me with.

[SkywalkerAC]

Sounds like Precious is coming off the bench for the first stretch of games at least. So I guess we have our second five (not that we're doing hockey lineups):

Banton
Porter
Thad
Boucher
Precious

Porter being out to start the season (I think?) tightens that up to 9. But it frees up a few minutes for...Flynn is the guy this probably benefits most. Birch the least.

[GOLDBLUM]

Sounds like Precious is coming off the bench for the first stretch of games at least. So I guess we have our second five (not that we're doing hockey lineups):

Banton
Porter
Thad
Boucher
Precious

Porter being out to start the season (I think?) tightens that up to 9. But it frees up a few minutes for...Flynn is the guy this probably benefits most. Birch the least.

I hope Koloko also gets some run.

Throw him in the proverbial fire.

.... Be between he and Birch I guess as to which of those two manages to scrape much together in terms of playing time.

[Puffer]

I hope Koloko also gets some run.

Throw him in the proverbial fire.

.... Be between he and Birch I guess as to which of those two manages to scrape much together in terms of playing time.

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more than expected. It's early days but it seems he would have no trouble facing a significant percentage of the starting centers in the league. He could play most of the games for the 905 and decent minutes for maybe 25% of the big team's games.

[LJ2]

If they stick to the pattern from last year, Koloko will get a shot early in the season.

[DanH]

I guess Koloko would be playing beside Precious a lot if Precious isn't starting? Not sure I love that as a fair shot for him...

Bench would be Koloko, Precious, Boucher, Thad, Banton?

Between starting small and creating a completely imbalanced bench, will not be surprised if we see a slow start out of the gate in spite of the inherent advantage of bringing most of the team back. Part of that advantage is supposed to be that you can learn from your previous year's mistakes and not repeat them, but oh well.

That said, maybe Otto is back and at least his shooting helps out, though you still need to find minutes for guys like Boucher.

[planetmars]

I guess Koloko would be playing beside Precious a lot if Precious isn't starting? Not sure I love that as a fair shot for him...

Bench would be Koloko, Precious, Boucher, Thad, Banton?

Between starting small and creating a completely imbalanced bench, will not be surprised if we see a slow start out of the gate in spite of the inherent advantage of bringing most of the team back. Part of that advantage is supposed to be that you can learn from your previous year's mistakes and not repeat them, but oh well.

That said, maybe Otto is back and at least his shooting helps out, though you still need to find minutes for guys like Boucher.

I don't see a situation where we play 5 bench players at once unless its a blow out or a few starters are sitting/hurt. If Koloko plays next to Precious it would be with at least 2 or 3 other starters.

And in my opinion Boucher is still our best glue player. And he should get more minutes than anyone off the bench, including Precious. He can fit with any lineup and his lineup stats from last year confirm that. The only two-man lineup with Boucher that had a negative net rating last year were with Flynn and with Svi. Every other combination was positive.

[SkywalkerAC]

Precious and Boucher off the bench = I'm not seeing any significant minutes for Koloko or Birch.