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The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
Why not
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DanH wrote: View Post
Is that the logic? Why not bench the starting quality, all-star, all-defence point guard in favour of your less-defensively-capable prototypical 6th man microwave scoring guard? There are several reasons why not to in that description alone...
It feels more like someone said it at some point and everyone decided to run with it because it sounded good, but no real merit to it.
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LJ2 wrote: View Post
Hey DanH, off topic but how valid is this idea that Trent Jr. is a "prototypical 6th man microwave scoring guard"? Been hearing it a fair bit around here but I always thought of his strength being more of a catch and shoot player, and less of an isolation savant. He doesn't have the handles or off the dribble scoring ability of a Lou Will, J. Crawford or Jordan Clarkson type 6th man. He hardly ever goes to the rim.
It feels more like someone said it at some point and everyone decided to run with it because it sounded good, but no real merit to it.
He does also shoot well in catch and shoot situations (who doesn't?). But lots of guys on the team can do that to some degree or another (Otto, Precious showed some nice flashes, OG especially, Fred of course is kind of both, even Pascal is pretty good in catch and shoot, heck even Thad hit hit spot up shots late in the year), very few can do what Gary does off the dribble as a shooter. That's his unique quality on the team, not the spot up shooting.
There's a fair question to be asked about how the starters will perform without his self-creation, but I have a lot of faith in Pascal, Scottie and Fred being enough, and the spacing will be fine so long as Precious can build on last year and manage a mid-30's success rate (not even his 40% stuff from late in the year) from the corner. Fred off the ball more and Scottie on the ball more will make a big difference there too.
Worth noting too that Gary wouldn't be alone on the bench, he'd be playing as the scorer beside whichever 1 or 2 of Pascal, Scottie and Fred are anchoring the bench at the time. So it's not like he'd lose all his spot up opportunities.
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As for his self creation efficacy, Gary had 94 possessions of isolation last year (about 1 a game), so you'd be ramping up the usage, but he scored 1 PPP on those plays, by far the best on the team among regulars. He had the second most PnR ball handler finishes on the team, with 0.87 PPP, pretty comparable to the top creators on the team (Pascal 0.88, Fred 0.93 - Scottie's 1.05 is hilarious but also much lower volume). He was 1 PPP on handoffs (about 1.5 a game). Between those three playtypes that's over 40% of Trent's offence last year (20% transition, 25% spot ups, 15% off screens and other miscellaneous off ball scoring).
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DanH wrote: View PostAs for his self creation efficacy, Gary had 94 possessions of isolation last year (about 1 a game), so you'd be ramping up the usage, but he scored 1 PPP on those plays, by far the best on the team among regulars. He had the second most PnR ball handler finishes on the team, with 0.87 PPP, pretty comparable to the top creators on the team (Pascal 0.88, Fred 0.93 - Scottie's 1.05 is hilarious but also much lower volume). He was 1 PPP on handoffs (about 1.5 a game). Between those three playtypes that's over 40% of Trent's offence last year (20% transition, 25% spot ups, 15% off screens and other miscellaneous off ball scoring).
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DanH wrote: View Post
Is that the logic? Why not bench the starting quality, all-star, all-defence point guard in favour of your less-defensively-capable prototypical 6th man microwave scoring guard? There are several reasons why not to in that description alone...
But once again, not surprising coming from the same poster who was hell or high water convince that the team was better off starting Birch.
So let’s stick to our respective lanes
You starting VanVleet
Me ideally having VanVleet as the 6th man
we agree to disagree
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LJ2 wrote: View Post
1 isolation attempt a game doesn't sound like the making of a great microwave type scorer, but we shall see if 1) Trent ends up coming off the bench and if he does 2) how he does in that role. Numbers sound encouraging I think....though the comparison seems to always be among other Raps players who may not excel in that area either.
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The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
Not my job to convince you. You went out of your way to open up a rabbit hole of a discussion that would not lead to nowhere but your defense of VanVleet.
But once again, not surprising coming from the same poster who was hell or high water convince that the team was better off starting Birch.
So let’s stick to our respective lanes
You starting VanVleet
Me ideally having VanVleet as the 6th man
we agree to disagree
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Having Trent come off the bench should way for some of our big lineups:
Scottie
Gary
Otto
Pascal
Boucher
Pascal
Gary
OG
Boucher
Precious
Just for the length on the court it would be quite nice to somehow minimize Fred and Gary's minutes on the court together, until Closing Time:
Fred
Gary
OG
Pascal
Scottie
#6thmanoftheyear
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SkywalkerAC wrote: View PostHaving Trent come off the bench should way for some of our big lineups:
Scottie
Gary
Otto
Pascal
Boucher
Pascal
Gary
OG
Boucher
Precious
Just for the length on the court it would be quite nice to somehow minimize Fred and Gary's minutes on the court together, until Closing Time:
Fred
Gary
OG
Pascal
Scottie
#6thmanoftheyear
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TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
I dont know if I would have Gary in the closing line up I would rather have Otto
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DanH wrote: View Post
We'll need to wait a bit before throwing Otto into our plans to that extent. Having Gary's bailout ability can be valuable late in games, and he'll be kept off ball in crunch time except in emergencies, which will limit the damage to the general offence on that end. Defensively, fair, but until we see how Otto holds up in our system probably best to hold off penciling him into anything but a bench role against bench players.
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