Everything Bench Beauties

[planetmars]

Fred averaged 36.5 in the bubble. And 35.7 the year before that. I think he can get back to that. Part of the problem is Malachi and Dalano were really underwhelming last year. If we see a little bit of improvement from both, or more importantly trust from Nurse in both.. then that should be easier to do.

A full year with a healthy Pascal will help too of course.

[LJ2]

I doubt it. Fred was 6th, 2nd & 2nd in the league in MPG over the last 3 seasons. Pascal was: 11th, 6th & 1st. Crazy minutes for those 2 guys aren't just a last season thing. It's standard operating procedure that gets us regular season wins.... and will likely continue. It will be a pleasant surprise if they drop out of the top 10 in MPG this season.

I'm pretty sure the addition of more competent players and the young players developing will help bring their minutes down. I can definitely see situations where it's a big game and those guys are out there the whole game but probably not until games start to matter.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Fred averaged 36.5 in the bubble. And 35.7 the year before that. I think he can get back to that. Part of the problem is Malachi and Dalano were really underwhelming last year. If we see a little bit of improvement from both, or more importantly trust from Nurse in both.. then that should be easier to do.

A full year with a healthy Pascal will help too of course.

hoping for less...


in terms of dalano no one was even expecting him to realistically play at all last year yet he did a fair bit to the tune of 10 minutes a game when he played...my expectations were low for the second-rounder picked in the mid to late second round.

[planetmars]

hoping for less...


in terms of dalano no one was even expecting him to realistically play at all last year yet he did a fair bit to the tune of 10 minutes a game when he played...my expectations were low for the second-rounder picked in the mid to late second round.

Less than 36? I mean that's only likely doable if we have more blow out wins. We don't have a lot of depth at the guard position. I already went through that numerous times about our lack of ball handlers on the team.


As for Dalano, I know he was a rookie.. but he's still only a sophomore and we saw plenty of him in the America's Cup. He's still going to be pretty raw unfortunately. But we'll need either him or Malachi to be better so that Nick feels more comfortable in playing them. If not well then see more 38+ MPG from Fred this season.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Less than 36? I mean that's only likely doable if we have more blow out wins. We don't have a lot of depth at the guard position. I already went through that numerous times about our lack of ball handlers on the team.


As for Dalano, I know he was a rookie.. but he's still only a sophomore and we saw plenty of him in the America's Cup. He's still going to be pretty raw unfortunately. But we'll need either him or Malachi to be better so that Nick feels more comfortable in playing them. If not well then see more 38+ MPG from Fred this season.

yes I want to get FVV down to no more than 32-33

[DanH]

yes I want to get FVV down to no more than 32-33

LOL not happening. Never mind whether Nick would want to (and LOL to that too), but Fred would be real mad.

The easing off for Fred will come from a couple of minutes per game less, and a slightly lesser offensive role. Between those two he should be fine.

[DanH]

Less than 36? I mean that's only likely doable if we have more blow out wins. We don't have a lot of depth at the guard position. I already went through that numerous times about our lack of ball handlers on the team.


As for Dalano, I know he was a rookie.. but he's still only a sophomore and we saw plenty of him in the America's Cup. He's still going to be pretty raw unfortunately. But we'll need either him or Malachi to be better so that Nick feels more comfortable in playing them. If not well then see more 38+ MPG from Fred this season.

I don't think no Dalano or Flynn means 38 minutes for Fred necessarily. We unlocked some real good no-Fred looks late last season. There's an easy path to reasonable Fred minutes without any useful bench guard play because Pascal and Scottie will provide that. Now, whether we take that easy path is a fair question.

[LJ2]

Less than 36? I mean that's only likely doable if we have more blow out wins. We don't have a lot of depth at the guard position. I already went through that numerous times about our lack of ball handlers on the team.


As for Dalano, I know he was a rookie.. but he's still only a sophomore and we saw plenty of him in the America's Cup. He's still going to be pretty raw unfortunately. But we'll need either him or Malachi to be better so that Nick feels more comfortable in playing them. If not well then see more 38+ MPG from Fred this season.

Well PM, the Raptors' analytics team have crunched the numbers and apparently having the prototypical point guard breaking down defenses to make crafty passes is less efficient than passing over the top of the defense. I kid, but it looks like Barnes and Siakam are going to be considered point guards just as much as FVV will be. That's the only way they will be able to open up minutes for the glut of forwards they've got.

[planetmars]

LOL not happening. Never mind whether Nick would want to (and LOL to that too), but Fred would be real mad.

The easing off for Fred will come from a couple of minutes per game less, and a slightly lesser offensive role. Between those two he should be fine.

Nurse did play Lowry and Kawhi 34mpg during our championship season. We arguably had more depth that year, but Nurse hasn't always been insane.

[planetmars]

Well PM, the Raptors' analytics team have crunched the numbers and apparently having the prototypical point guard breaking down defenses to make crafty passes is less efficient than passing over the top of the defense. I kid, but it looks like Barnes and Siakam are going to be considered point guards just as much as FVV will be. That's the only way they will be able to open up minutes for the glut of forwards they've got.

I don't really use point guard. I use ball handler. And on this roster right now the only ball handlers are Fred, Pascal, Scottie, Dalano, Malachi and Jeff (Dowtin). I do not consider OG, Gary, Otto, Thad, Chris, etc ball handlers. And the line ups last year match this theory because neither Thad, OG or Gary ever played without a "ball handler" last season. Except for one time where they played with Khem and I believe Yuta. For a grand total of 2 minutes in one game (and were a -100 net rating in those minutes).

Nurse likes ball handlers.. and is a main reason why he played guys like McCaw, Brown and Stanley Johnson more than they should have.

[Hotshot]

I don't really use point guard. I use ball handler. And on this roster right now the only ball handlers are Fred, Pascal, Scottie, Dalano, Malachi and Jeff (Dowtin). I do not consider OG, Gary, Otto, Thad, Chris, etc ball handlers. And the line ups last year match this theory because neither Thad, OG or Gary ever played without a "ball handler" last season. Except for one time where they played with Khem and I believe Yuta. For a grand total of 2 minutes in one game (and were a -100 net rating in those minutes).

Nurse likes ball handlers.. and is a main reason why he played guys like McCaw, Brown and Stanley Johnson more than they should have.

Nurse pointing to team Spain now: "YOU SEE! THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!"

[G__Deane]

LOL not happening. Never mind whether Nick would want to (and LOL to that too), but Fred would be real mad.

The easing off for Fred will come from a couple of minutes per game less, and a slightly lesser offensive role. Between those two he should be fine.

Good overlooked point; it's not just the minutes but the role.

[A.I]

Nurse did play Lowry and Kawhi 34mpg during our championship season. We arguably had more depth that year, but Nurse hasn't always been insane.

34 is pretty normal for stars. Fred and Pascal of course have played more last season and moments where they play 40+ mins in multiple games.

Problem is those 2 drive a lot of wins and Fred doesn't have much depth behind him.

The other big part is their minutes and offensive load came separately, not together. Pascal missed the beginning of the season and it took him some time to get back into form when he did come back, thats when Fred was playing heavy minutes with a large role. He ended up getting injured in the 2nd half of the season where Pascal took over and played heavy minutes with a large role.

[LJ2]

I don't really use point guard. I use ball handler. And on this roster right now the only ball handlers are Fred, Pascal, Scottie, Dalano, Malachi and Jeff (Dowtin). I do not consider OG, Gary, Otto, Thad, Chris, etc ball handlers. And the line ups last year match this theory because neither Thad, OG or Gary ever played without a "ball handler" last season. Except for one time where they played with Khem and I believe Yuta. For a grand total of 2 minutes in one game (and were a -100 net rating in those minutes).

Nurse likes ball handlers.. and is a main reason why he played guys like McCaw, Brown and Stanley Johnson more than they should have.

How many ball handlers do you think they need if Fred, Scottie and Pascal average the expected 34-36 minutes a game, some of which will be staggered? Gotta look at it like those three are all primary ball handlers and OG, Trent, Thad, and maybe JJ are the secondary/pressure release guys.

Can't really say "Nurse likes ball handlers" if he chose not to play Dalano and Flynn.

[planetmars]

How many ball handlers do you think they need if Fred, Scottie and Pascal average the expected 34-36 minutes a game, some of which will be staggered? Gotta look at it like those three are all primary ball handlers and OG, Trent, Thad, and maybe JJ are the secondary/pressure release guys.

Can't really say "Nurse likes ball handlers" if he chose not to play Dalano and Flynn.

It's a primary reason why Pascal, Fred and Scottie played a lot and may continue to play a lot if Nick continues to not trust Dalano and Malachi. And it's also why I wished Masai brought in a vet ball handler for that reason.