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  • planetmars wrote: View Post

    It's a primary reason why Pascal, Fred and Scottie played a lot and may continue to play a lot if Nick continues to not trust Dalano and Malachi. And it's also why I wished Masai brought in a vet ball handler for that reason.

    I wanted another vet ball handler as well...someone like Rubio, but it's not easy to get one that defends well in out system. Raps are fully invested in staying as big as possible too which makes it that much more difficult to find the right fit. Training camp is a week away I believe, so hopefully we'll get some news on what the line ups are going to look like.

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    • Why do y’all keep saying Malachi or Dalano have to get playing time for Fred’s minutes to come down. How many times do people have to say that one of Pascal or Scottie will be playing the back up point guard. Nurse literally said so in one of his more recent interviews. It’s something they figured out worked to end last season. If they figured that out earlier in the season Fred wouldn’t have been playing the minutes he did. They will just take out Pascal or Scottie earlier in the game so they can come back in to relieve Fred and play with the bench. It’s really not that hard to get lol. Pascal and Scottie are miles better at literally everything than Malachi or Dalano anyway. So it’s actually better for the team as a whole if you care about winning. Malachi and Dalano (unless they prove to have taken a big step forward) will literally only play situationally, if there’s injury, early foul trouble for someone (and that’s still a maybe) or in blow outs. We will be running with a 9 man rotation and to me Birch will be the 10th man more often than not when needed.
      I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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      • GLF wrote: View Post
        Why do y’all keep saying Malachi or Dalano have to get playing time for Fred’s minutes to come down. How many times do people have to say that one of Pascal or Scottie will be playing the back up point guard. Nurse literally said so in one of his more recent interviews. It’s something they figured out worked to end last season. If they figured that out earlier in the season Fred wouldn’t have been playing the minutes he did. They will just take out Pascal or Scottie earlier in the game so they can come back in to relieve Fred and play with the bench. It’s really not that hard to get lol. Pascal and Scottie are miles better at literally everything than Malachi or Dalano anyway. So it’s actually better for the team as a whole if you care about winning. Malachi and Dalano (unless they prove to have taken a big step forward) will literally only play situationally, if there’s injury, early foul trouble for someone (and that’s still a maybe) or in blow outs. We will be running with a 9 man rotation and to me Birch will be the 10th man more often than not when needed.
        I am not one of these people however I believe it is the result of viewing minutes through a more traditional lens of positions. For example, some people still don't see Barnes as a point guard.... I persosnally think he is but he isn't a normal point guard and I have said it multiple times. What that means is there are fans that will not recognize that Barnes can soak up minutes at the point guard spot or even Siakam... since they did. Nurse has mentioned this in interviews (them having the ball in their hands more) but for what ever reason this is still not accepted.

        Additionally, people have trouble fully agreeing that Fred should be at least TRIED as an off guard role in the offence at an increasing amount this year. If you mention it there are those who seem to think that off guard means no point guard or ball handling duties... which isn't necessarily the case. It jstu means the usage number tapers down.



        That is the probably main reason. The other reason beyond that comes from the fact that in terms of ball handling and playmaking the bench is upgraded but we do still lack those skills even if Barnes takes on some of that. He is in the starting line up so you don't want to start playing Barnes 42 minutes a night. Also Gary isn't a combo guard in that sense so he isn't optimal. It is a role that could use an upgrade even if you give some of that usage and some of those minutes to Barnes ... IDEALLY you would have Flynn or Banton step up as contributors and grow and develop this season to the point where one of them can help add additional options with that role or alternatively one of them becomes a trade piece to add to a larger salary like Birch to fetch that.




        At least those are the reasons that I feel are responsible for this idea. In terms of Birch.. I do think there is a chance he is rendered useless by seasons end or even by the trade deadline if Koloko can be a contributor with upside this season. NOTICE I SAID IF PEOPLE. Alternatively, if Gary is stuck in the starting line up but precious is really killing it Birch still likely is not going to be playing heavy minutes at all this season..

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        • GLF wrote: View Post
          Why do y’all keep saying Malachi or Dalano have to get playing time for Fred’s minutes to come down. How many times do people have to say that one of Pascal or Scottie will be playing the back up point guard. Nurse literally said so in one of his more recent interviews. It’s something they figured out worked to end last season. If they figured that out earlier in the season Fred wouldn’t have been playing the minutes he did. They will just take out Pascal or Scottie earlier in the game so they can come back in to relieve Fred and play with the bench. It’s really not that hard to get lol. Pascal and Scottie are miles better at literally everything than Malachi or Dalano anyway. So it’s actually better for the team as a whole if you care about winning. Malachi and Dalano (unless they prove to have taken a big step forward) will literally only play situationally, if there’s injury, early foul trouble for someone (and that’s still a maybe) or in blow outs. We will be running with a 9 man rotation and to me Birch will be the 10th man more often than not when needed.
          Pascal, Scottie and Fred are all playing PG for this team. It's a matter of depth after those 3 guys. All of which play at the same time (ie, start). So things should work out for the most part when everyone is healthy. Do some staggering.. try to get guys around 36mpg. But if we want to try to achieve better than that (ie, get to 33-34mpg) then we need more play makers / ball handlers. And that requires more time for Dalano and Flynn unfortunately.

          If you have to have one or two of Fred/Pascal/Scottie out there at all times it becomes tough, especially if one is hurt or away for a game.

          We have depth.. but a lot of our depth is at the traditional forward spot. Guys like Thad, Porter, Khem and Koloko can't replace what Scottie, Pascal and Fred can do. OG and Gary can't do it either unfortunately.

          Comment


          • planetmars wrote: View Post

            Pascal, Scottie and Fred are all playing PG for this team. It's a matter of depth after those 3 guys. All of which play at the same time (ie, start). So things should work out for the most part when everyone is healthy. Do some staggering.. try to get guys around 36mpg. But if we want to try to achieve better than that (ie, get to 33-34mpg) then we need more play makers / ball handlers. And that requires more time for Dalano and Flynn unfortunately.

            If you have to have one or two of Fred/Pascal/Scottie out there at all times it becomes tough, especially if one is hurt or away for a game.

            We have depth.. but a lot of our depth is at the traditional forward spot. Guys like Thad, Porter, Khem and Koloko can't replace what Scottie, Pascal and Fred can do. OG and Gary can't do it either unfortunately.
            Here I'll do the math for you.

            There are 48 PG minutes per game
            Pascal, Fred, and Scottie all play 35 mpg
            That's 105 mpg between all 3.

            It will be extremely easy to have 2 of those guys on the court at all times, let alone the 1 you need to play PG.

            We don't need any minutes at all from any other ball handlers.

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            • Primer wrote: View Post

              Here I'll do the math for you.

              There are 48 PG minutes per game
              Pascal, Fred, and Scottie all play 35 mpg
              That's 105 mpg between all 3.

              It will be extremely easy to have 2 of those guys on the court at all times, let alone the 1 you need to play PG.

              We don't need any minutes at all from any other ball handlers.
              35 is still a bit high and nobody plays 82 games anymore.

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              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                35 is still a bit high and nobody plays 82 games anymore.
                35 is perfectly fine and a reduction for all 3. You don't want to play your best players less than 35mpg.

                If they miss games then Malachi and Banton may get some run, until then they won't.

                No one has argued that in the case of injuries or rest days we won't play Malachi and Banton, just that they will only play in those instances.

                Comment


                • planetmars wrote: View Post

                  Pascal, Scottie and Fred are all playing PG for this team. It's a matter of depth after those 3 guys. All of which play at the same time (ie, start). So things should work out for the most part when everyone is healthy. Do some staggering.. try to get guys around 36mpg. But if we want to try to achieve better than that (ie, get to 33-34mpg) then we need more play makers / ball handlers. And that requires more time for Dalano and Flynn unfortunately.

                  If you have to have one or two of Fred/Pascal/Scottie out there at all times it becomes tough, especially if one is hurt or away for a game.

                  We have depth.. but a lot of our depth is at the traditional forward spot. Guys like Thad, Porter, Khem and Koloko can't replace what Scottie, Pascal and Fred can do. OG and Gary can't do it either unfortunately.
                  One of Pascal, Fred or Scottie will ALWAYS be on the floor. Like that’s a given. If you want to win that’s what will happen. And you won’t have to play them 38-40 minutes to do that. No one is force feeding Malachi minutes if he isn’t playing well just bc people can’t wrap their head around Pascal and Scottie playing point lol. Like I promise you Malachi and Dalano will not be needed unless injuries set in. We are not doing hockey substitutions. If you think Malachi can run a bench unit just bc he’s a good ball handler I have a wake up call for you. You’re the only one who is so dead set on these guys only playing 33 minutes. That’s not happening. It will be 35-36 and that’s fine. 38-40 is where it gets out of hand but 35-36 is normal for starters their age. If Malachi and/or Dalano come in much improved then that’s a different story. But if they play like last season they will not be getting minutes and thankfully this year it won’t matter bc we will not need them when healthy. Neither bring anything Pascal and Scottie don’t already bring and at a MUCH higher level. We’ll be fine. Them playing well is a nice to have, icing on the cake so to speak. It’s not a necessity.
                  I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

                  Comment


                  • Y’all acting like Fred, Scottie and Pascal are 35 years old. Chill out lol. 35 minutes is just fine and a decent decrease from last season for Pascal and Fred. And if Fred can get his minutes lowered to 35 PLUS have less ball handling duties that’s a pretty good decrease in the stress on his body. If they get injured that’s the only time we’ll really look to Malachi or Dalano’s way. Unless they show decent improvement this season as I’ve said before. Which I am hoping for by the way bc I do want to see them succeed. I just have to see it first before I go forcing them into the lineup when they’re not needed
                    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                    • Primer wrote: View Post

                      35 is perfectly fine and a reduction for all 3. You don't want to play your best players less than 35mpg.

                      If they miss games then Malachi and Banton may get some run, until then they won't.

                      No one has argued that in the case of injuries or rest days we won't play Malachi and Banton, just that they will only play in those instances.
                      You should take a look at mpg leaders from last year. Many stars play less than 35mpg. And a lot of them are guards.

                      Kyle and Kawhi averaged 34mpg in our championship season. They were stars too. 35 is a bit high. It should be closer to 33 or 34. And every minute matters.

                      And I know nobody argues about injuries.. but they will happen. And we still, despite those injuries should still get to 33 or 34mpg for our 3 best players. Fred was garbage in the playoffs mostly because he was over played last season. I really hope it doesn't happen again.

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                      • GLF wrote: View Post

                        One of Pascal, Fred or Scottie will ALWAYS be on the floor. Like that’s a given. If you want to win that’s what will happen. And you won’t have to play them 38-40 minutes to do that. No one is force feeding Malachi minutes if he isn’t playing well just bc people can’t wrap their head around Pascal and Scottie playing point lol. Like I promise you Malachi and Dalano will not be needed unless injuries set in. We are not doing hockey substitutions. If you think Malachi can run a bench unit just bc he’s a good ball handler I have a wake up call for you. You’re the only one who is so dead set on these guys only playing 33 minutes. That’s not happening. It will be 35-36 and that’s fine. 38-40 is where it gets out of hand but 35-36 is normal for starters their age. If Malachi and/or Dalano come in much improved then that’s a different story. But if they play like last season they will not be getting minutes and thankfully this year it won’t matter bc we will not need them when healthy. Neither bring anything Pascal and Scottie don’t already bring and at a MUCH higher level. We’ll be fine. Them playing well is a nice to have, icing on the cake so to speak. It’s not a necessity.
                        The bold will be a problem. Can't count on that all season.. it makes sense in the playoffs, but not during the regular season, including back to backs and 3 games in 4 nights. This is an issue because we saw first hand what overplaying a guy will do. Fred could barely play and he's a big reason why were down 0-3 and then ultimately lost the series.

                        I don't want Malachi or Dalano to play either if they suck. But Bobby and Masai failed to get us depth in an important position and it could hurt us. That's basically my point. I have no idea why we signed guys like Hernangomez or Jackson or Wilson. Why bother when we have guys like Boucher, Thad, Khem, Champagnie and OG on the roster already.

                        35 and 36 is a lot. Just take a look at the mpg leaders from last year. 33 should be the goal.. even if you are playing off ball.

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post

                          The bold will be a problem. Can't count on that all season.. it makes sense in the playoffs, but not during the regular season, including back to backs and 3 games in 4 nights. This is an issue because we saw first hand what overplaying a guy will do. Fred could barely play and he's a big reason why were down 0-3 and then ultimately lost the series.

                          I don't want Malachi or Dalano to play either if they suck. But Bobby and Masai failed to get us depth in an important position and it could hurt us. That's basically my point. I have no idea why we signed guys like Hernangomez or Jackson or Wilson. Why bother when we have guys like Boucher, Thad, Khem, Champagnie and OG on the roster already.

                          35 and 36 is a lot. Just take a look at the mpg leaders from last year. 33 should be the goal.. even if you are playing off ball.
                          We will have to agree to disagree. Fred to me broke down bc he literally had to carry the team on his back and have the ball in his hands all the time for the first half or so of the season AND he was playing 38 mins per game. This season when healthy that won’t be the case and we will be lowering his minutes about 3 mins. If he’s playing off ball a lot more and has his minutes lowered to 35 I think he will be fine. But Malachi will get an opportunity so hopefully he finally seizes it.
                          I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

                          Comment


                          • planetmars wrote: View Post

                            The bold will be a problem. Can't count on that all season.. it makes sense in the playoffs, but not during the regular season, including back to backs and 3 games in 4 nights. This is an issue because we saw first hand what overplaying a guy will do. Fred could barely play and he's a big reason why were down 0-3 and then ultimately lost the series.

                            I don't want Malachi or Dalano to play either if they suck. But Bobby and Masai failed to get us depth in an important position and it could hurt us. That's basically my point. I have no idea why we signed guys like Hernangomez or Jackson or Wilson. Why bother when we have guys like Boucher, Thad, Khem, Champagnie and OG on the roster already.

                            35 and 36 is a lot. Just take a look at the mpg leaders from last year. 33 should be the goal.. even if you are playing off ball.
                            Also you said the bold will be a problem, but unless it’s a team with one of the best benches in the league (we are not that), most teams always have one of their stars on the floor at all times in the regular season. Very few teams do these hockey substitutions or have all 3 of their top players on the bench at the same time. It just doesn’t make sense and you would probably lose a lot of games. There are others ways you can get your stars some rest without benching all of them at the same time.
                            I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

                            Comment


                            • GLF wrote: View Post
                              Y’all acting like Fred, Scottie and Pascal are 35 years old. Chill out lol. 35 minutes is just fine and a decent decrease from last season for Pascal and Fred. And if Fred can get his minutes lowered to 35 PLUS have less ball handling duties that’s a pretty good decrease in the stress on his body. If they get injured that’s the only time we’ll really look to Malachi or Dalano’s way. Unless they show decent improvement this season as I’ve said before. Which I am hoping for by the way bc I do want to see them succeed. I just have to see it first before I go forcing them into the lineup when they’re not needed
                              I am mainly worried about 35+ minutes for fred because he has had a number of knee issues and we will need him (not against the east as much) but against western conference teams because they are build very differently than the top of the east. My whole idea behind Fred off ball is to keep him FRESH for the playoffs. To keep him healthy. Lower usage, and less min

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                              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                                Nurse did play Lowry and Kawhi 34mpg during our championship season. We arguably had more depth that year, but Nurse hasn't always been insane.
                                We had maybe the deepest team in NBA history. It was an absolutely insane roster.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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