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2022 PreSeason - 3 Weeks to Camp Opening - Where Do The Raps Stack up in the East ?

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  • golden wrote: View Post

    Never said anything about making the ECF.... which "non-elite" coach, Nate McMillan, actually achieved with a young, rebuilding team.

    Just pointing out that Nurse hasn't won a legit playoff series since Kawhi left. Like, not even 1 single playoff series.

    And that most of the teams in the East were also rebuilding during the same period as the Raptors, with much less experienced players than Fred/OG/Siakam and Lowry/Norm for 2 seasons. No need to create extreme strawmen or get upset. It's simply a statement of fact.
    It isn't fact. Fact is he won a Playoff series and lost 2. What you count as "legit" is subjective.

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    • golden wrote: View Post

      Never said anything about making the ECF.... which "non-elite" coach, Nate McMillan, actually achieved with a young, rebuilding team.

      Just pointing out that Nurse hasn't won a legit playoff series since Kawhi left. Like, not even 1 single playoff series.

      And that most of the teams in the East were also rebuilding during the same period as the Raptors, with much less experienced players than Fred/OG/Siakam and Lowry/Norm for 2 seasons. No need to create extreme strawmen or get upset. It's simply a statement of fact.
      Didn't Nate take over half way though the season the year ATL made it to the ECF finals? C'mon now you can't possibly be throwing that out there like he was responsible for it. Look what he was able to do as a full season HC in ATL this season

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      • I got bos, mil and mia top 3. Crapshoot after that not even gonna try. 1-10 is gonna be tighter than its ever been. Should be a lot of fun

        I’ll go on a limb and say raps lose to Cleveland in the first round and we talk about a center all next summer

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          Nurse hasn't won a legit playoff series since Kawhi left.
          We swept Brooklyn in round 1 the next year.

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          • A.I wrote: View Post

            It isn't fact. Fact is he won a Playoff series and lost 2. What you count as "legit" is subjective.
            Love how he says we're creating strawmen while he throws out an entire year of playoffs as not legit.

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            • Primer wrote: View Post

              We swept Brooklyn in round 1 the next year.
              We did what we were supposed to do.
              That doesn't count for anything.

              We didn't do what we might've done had things gone differently.
              That is ALL.

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              • Primer wrote: View Post

                We swept Brooklyn in round 1 the next year.
                They played the Long Island Nets. Even Fred admitted that wasn't a legit series win. People have very short (and selective) memories.

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                • golden wrote: View Post

                  They played the Long Island Nets. Even Fred admitted that wasn't a legit series win. People have very short (and selective) memories.

                  Fred didn't say that at all. You're also being selective lol.

                  All Fred is referring to is the gap between the injured Nets team and the Celtics was pretty big, which is true. Using terms like "it wasn't legit" is just a way of discrediting, like people putting asterisks on championships. The Raptors played what was ahead of them and swept the Nets like they were supposed to.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    Never said anything about making the ECF.... which "non-elite" coach, Nate McMillan, actually achieved with a young, rebuilding team.

                    Just pointing out that Nurse hasn't won a legit playoff series since Kawhi left. Like, not even 1 single playoff series.

                    And that most of the teams in the East were also rebuilding during the same period as the Raptors, with much less experienced players than Fred/OG/Siakam and Lowry/Norm for 2 seasons. No need to create extreme strawmen or get upset. It's simply a statement of fact.
                    He came within a game 7 of making the ECF. So to do better than he did, you'd expect him to make an ECF, no?

                    Not one single playoff series? I like how you start with the wishy-washy "legit" language to ignore the Nets series, then double down on removing that context like no other team benefits from a shorthanded/gutted playoff opponent (like the 76ers this year!) to say "not one single playoff series".

                    Most teams in the East - well, almost half the teams in the East miss the playoffs every year, so yeah, I would hope most of them would be rebuilding.

                    You can state it as fact all you like, but you know as well as I do that you don't care about the statement of fact, it's a way to dig at Nick and your imaginary opponents out there who think he's a god. You want to state facts? List the actual facts. Show me the teams that a) in actual fact are less experienced in aggregate than the Raptors over the past three years, say by a minutes-weighted average age and b) have won "legit" playoff series in that time, and then we can have a conversation about statements of fact rather than pot-shots with no evidence or context.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      Never said anything about making the ECF.... which "non-elite" coach, Nate McMillan, actually achieved with a young, rebuilding team.

                      Just pointing out that Nurse hasn't won a legit playoff series since Kawhi left. Like, not even 1 single playoff series.

                      And that most of the teams in the East were also rebuilding during the same period as the Raptors, with much less experienced players than Fred/OG/Siakam and Lowry/Norm for 2 seasons. No need to create extreme strawmen or get upset. It's simply a statement of fact.
                      If your point is that Nurse is NOT an elite coach, I think most of us are cool with that.

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                      • Aside from the Nets ..... which team has the highest likelihood to implode ?

                        I'd say Philly.
                        The window is closing quickly on the Hinkies.
                        The Philly sports media are ruthless. They eat raw meat and hockey sticks for breakfast. They still hate Ben Simmons. If the Hinkies stumble out of the gate, either through injury or on court chemistry, Doc Rivers already the subject of rumours might see the gas turned up on him by both the local and national media. It will be a circus if that happens.... Philly might just hit the ground like a bag of wet cement. Or not.

                        Any other candidates. ?
                        And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                          Aside from the Nets ..... which team has the highest likelihood to implode ?

                          I'd say Philly.
                          The window is closing quickly on the Hinkies.
                          The Philly sports media are ruthless. They eat raw meat and hockey sticks for breakfast. They still hate Ben Simmons. If the Hinkies stumble out of the gate, either through injury or on court chemistry, Doc Rivers already the subject of rumours might see the gas turned up on him by both the local and national media. It will be a circus if that happens.... Philly might just hit the ground like a bag of wet cement. Or not.

                          Any other candidates. ?
                          Miami because they're very old. If Lowry and Butler decline they're screwed, and they're both at the ages where guys fall off the cliff or become super injury prone.

                          Comment


                          • A.I wrote: View Post

                            Fred didn't say that at all. You're also being selective lol.

                            All Fred is referring to is the gap between the injured Nets team and the Celtics was pretty big, which is true. Using terms like "it wasn't legit" is just a way of discrediting, like people putting asterisks on championships. The Raptors played what was ahead of them and swept the Nets like they were supposed to.
                            Uh, no. Raptors had a full team, but the Nets didn't even bring their regular season team to the bubble. They were missing Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Taurean Prince, Wilson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan & Nic Claxton. They were starting guys who are out of the league and/or scrapping for 15th man positions, like: Tyler Johnson, TLC and Garrett Temple.

                            If that's a "legit" NBA starting lineup (even in comparison to their own regular season team), then we can agree to disagree. Smells a lot like an asterisk and a cream-puff Harlem Globetrotters opponent to me.

                            To put it in simple perspective: the team the Nets brought to the bubble would not have come close to making the playoffs in the first place. They weren't a legitimate playoff team when we played them. Over the course of a full season, they would probably come closer to setting league records for most losses. We can all agree on that... right?
                            Last edited by golden; Tue Sep 20, 2022, 05:58 PM.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              Uh, no. Raptors had a full team, but the Nets didn't even bring their regular season team to the bubble. They were missing Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Taurean Prince, Wilson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan & Nic Claxton. They were starting guys who are out of the league and/or scrapping for 15th man positions, like: Tyler Johnson, TLC and Garrett Temple.

                              If that's a "legit" NBA starting lineup (even in comparison to their own regular season team), then we can agree to disagree. Smells a lot like an asterisk and a cream-puff Harlem Globetrotters opponent to me.

                              To put it in simple perspective: the team the Nets brought to the bubble would not have come close to making the playoffs in the first place. They weren't a legitimate playoff team when we played them. Over the course of a full season, they would probably come closer to setting league records for most losses. We can all agree on that... right?
                              I think the general consensus is that Toronto overachieved in 2020 and last season as well (the Tampa garbage aside). Nurse has been lionized to an extreme (I agree with that) but he is a very good coach who has extracted a lot from the rosters he's been given. Re-litigating history is the same thing the Casey naysayers do all the time, ignoring all the factors in play. Bottom line is that the team is in good hands and should be in line for success this season.

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                              • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                                Siakam is the real deal once more - Agree. He is a plug n play 20 + a game lock... love to see him rebound more on the back end.

                                Barnes is my favorite Raptor ever - Not since the Bosh / Carter era have we buzzed on a rookie like this one. He can be that good.

                                Fred will never be an All-Star again - Agree... The point guard of the future should be on the needs list at Raptors mobile command on Ujiris Blackberry.
                                I want OG to surprise me - Yes. Yes it will be a hell of a surprise. An injury free season with close to 20 PPG... Love to see him rebound more on the back end. .
                                and I'm not down on GTJr. - I'm neutral but not down on him. GTJr. is our microwave. Some nights he comes plugged in and fills it up. Some nights not so much. However....He is on his own option call at the end of this season. He is making 18. The cap has gone up. A more consistent year on the offensive end and if he brings his defensive chops every night he can get the bag from someone. He can opt out and score big... either with us or with someone else.

                                Raps in 5th in the East - Yep.. if all goes well thats in the range of outcomes. 5 through 7 is my range.
                                I was waiting for the vehement disagreement somewhere in there

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