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Hopefully the JV vs. drummond debate is over for now

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  • Hopefully the JV vs. drummond debate is over for now

    I've had a huge problem over the past couple of seasons with people saying that Drummond is a better player than Jv. Yes he's more athletic by a mile, but he plays on a bad team, and JV has been playing on a winner.

    People think Drummond is better because his numbers are better for the most part. But I remember when David lee lead the league in rebounds for NY.

    10 and 10 for a top 3 team in a conference is far more significant than 15 and 15 for a shitty team.

    Last night was a statement to everyone on how far these two are apart in their careers today. Hopefully the debate is over for a long while.

  • #2
    The debate has never really been Drummond vs JV. It's pretty much always been Drummond vs Ross. People who like to shift goalposts change the convo for their own purposes.

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    • #3
      Scraptor wrote: View Post
      The debate has never really been Drummond vs JV. It's pretty much always been Drummond vs Ross. People who like to shift goalposts change the convo for their own purposes.
      not true, this debate has existed.
      "Bruno?
      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
      He's terrible."

      -Superjudge, 7/23

      Hope you're wrong.

      Comment


      • #4
        Meh, it's one game. I'm not saying I'd prefer Drummond over JV necessarily (haven't really thought about it that much to be honest) but I wouldn't take a singular head to head match up as the definitive factor in the argument. JV is fortunate to play in a really good environment, and Drummond plays in a toxic one. Put the two guys on the opposite teams over the last few seasons and I doubt we see JV lead the Pistons to any more success (you think he gets froze out in Toronto?).


        I also don't get the thing about David Lee. Yes, he lead the league in rebounding for the Knicks. Are you saying that was a fluke because he played on a lousy team? He's been one of the better rebounders in the league for the past decade.

        Comment


        • #5
          As Scraptor mentioned the debate has been mostly about the Ross vs Drummond draft selection. Any reference to JV has been in this context (what if Drummond played alongside JV and should have been drafted by the Raps as the BPA). That ship has sailed obviously.

          Drummond is obviously an intimidating/athletic force under the rim but JV is a much more well rounded same-position player imo. The one no-no for a centre playing meaningful minutes at crunch time and in big games is to be a bad free throw shooter. Never mind his shooting (other than close to basket dunks/put-ins)...Drummond is this in spades. He would be hacked each time if he were to handle the ball on offense. JV on the other hand is terrific from the FT line and is improving on his offensive game.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bendit wrote: View Post
            As Scraptor mentioned the debate has been mostly about the Ross vs Drummond draft selection. Any reference to JV has been in this context (what if Drummond played alongside JV and should have been drafted by the Raps as the BPA). That ship has sailed obviously.

            Drummond is obviously an intimidating/athletic force under the rim but JV is a much more well rounded same-position player imo. The one no-no for a centre playing meaningful minutes at crunch time and in big games is to be a bad free throw shooter. Never mind his shooting (other than close to basket dunks/put-ins)...Drummond is this in spades. He would be hacked each time if he were to handle the ball on offense. JV on the other hand is terrific from the FT line and is improving on his offensive game.
            Drummond should be a a Ben Wallace type garbage man and help defender. As a center he is almost useless.

            Comment


            • #7
              If JV develops his midrange jumper, that will give JV definite advantage.
              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Bendit wrote: View Post
                As Scraptor mentioned the debate has been mostly about the Ross vs Drummond draft selection. Any reference to JV has been in this context (what if Drummond played alongside JV and should have been drafted by the Raps as the BPA). That ship has sailed obviously.

                Drummond is obviously an intimidating/athletic force under the rim but JV is a much more well rounded same-position player imo. The one no-no for a centre playing meaningful minutes at crunch time and in big games is to be a bad free throw shooter. Never mind his shooting (other than close to basket dunks/put-ins)...Drummond is this in spades. He would be hacked each time if he were to handle the ball on offense. JV on the other hand is terrific from the FT line and is improving on his offensive game.
                Yep...the fact that JV projects to be a much more complete player is what I've always preferred. He is slowly becoming a C without an area of significant weakness. His mental approach is better (and that could partly have to do with environment, but I think JV's is better anyway), and his game has matured more than Drummond's both from a skills perspective and bball IQ perspective.

                BTW, last night's hard foul also didn't impress me at all. Sometimes knocking someone on their ass can be ok....But they were down big (not like it could energize the team and get them back in it). There was no real dirty play from us (not doing it to defending your team/players), and all that happened was you got dunked on (on a dunk where Drummond actually hit JJ in the head and could've easily been an and-one, possibly even a flagrant)....Dude needs to grow the fuck up. I don't know if we'd ever see JV do something that stupid just for getting dunked on.

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                • #9
                  Scraptor wrote: View Post
                  The debate has never really been Drummond vs JV. It's pretty much always been Drummond vs Ross. People who like to shift goalposts change the convo for their own purposes.
                  Also could consider the what if re just missing out on Harrison Barnes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    Yep...the fact that JV projects to be a much more complete player is what I've always preferred. He is slowly becoming a C without an area of significant weakness. His mental approach is better (and that could partly have to do with environment, but I think JV's is better anyway), and his game has matured more than Drummond's both from a skills perspective and bball IQ perspective.

                    BTW, last night's hard foul also didn't impress me at all. Sometimes knocking someone on their ass can be ok....But they were down big (not like it could energize the team and get them back in it). There was no real dirty play from us (not doing it to defending your team/players), and all that happened was you got dunked on (on a dunk where Drummond actually hit JJ in the head and could've easily been an and-one, possibly even a flagrant)....Dude needs to grow the fuck up. I don't know if we'd ever see JV do something that stupid just for getting dunked on.
                    Should've been a flagrant 2 foul.
                    Mamba Mentality

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                    • #11
                      jv on a shitty team like detroit would definitely put up better numbers
                      easily 15/10 i would think
                      drummond has a lot of work to do if hes going to be anything more than a garbage man

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The real question is: whos a better fit on this Raptors squad?

                        We could have easily drafted Drummond, traded JV + spare parts for Harden and easily be a 55+ win team

                        For JV to be effective night in and night out, you have to run plays for him and get him involved. There are too many times where Casey rightfully yanked him because he was a no show, JV is inconsistent.

                        Drummond is light years ahead of JV on defense, both as a shotblocker and as someone who can make rotations against guards.
                        He's a freak athlete, monster rebounder and can make plays from nothing.

                        He could easily put up better offensive numbers if Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings arent shitting bricks and if he doesnt have to play with an All-star caliber PF. JV is the only inside big man offensive option on this team (Amir is a garbage big man) and his stats still aren't that eyepopping.

                        How can you say the guy is Ben Wallace? Drummond has legitmiate size and unlike Wallace, Drummond isn't just a 1 dimensional shot blocker lol

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          2kfeen wrote: View Post
                          The real question is: whos a better fit on this Raptors squad?

                          We could have easily drafted Drummond, traded JV + spare parts for Harden and easily be a 55+ win team

                          For JV to be effective night in and night out, you have to run plays for him and get him involved. There are too many times where Casey rightfully yanked him because he was a no show, JV is inconsistent.

                          Drummond is light years ahead of JV on defense, both as a shotblocker and as someone who can make rotations against guards.
                          He's a freak athlete, monster rebounder and can make plays from nothing.


                          He could easily put up better offensive numbers if Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings arent shitting bricks and if he doesnt have to play with an All-star caliber PF. JV is the only inside big man offensive option on this team (Amir is a garbage big man) and his stats still aren't that eyepopping.

                          How can you say the guy is Ben Wallace? Drummond has legitmiate size and unlike Wallace, Drummond isn't just a 1 dimensional shot blocker lol
                          much wow, tenforthewin material up here...
                          Last edited by RandomGuy; Sat Dec 20, 2014, 05:41 PM.
                          Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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                          • #14
                            stooley wrote: View Post
                            not true, this debate has existed.
                            fuck that, I wanted um both. drummond and JV in the paint.....ouch

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              2kfeen wrote: View Post
                              The real question is: whos a better fit on this Raptors squad?

                              We could have easily drafted Drummond, traded JV + spare parts for Harden and easily be a 55+ win team

                              For JV to be effective night in and night out, you have to run plays for him and get him involved. There are too many times where Casey rightfully yanked him because he was a no show, JV is inconsistent.

                              Drummond is light years ahead of JV on defense, both as a shotblocker and as someone who can make rotations against guards.
                              He's a freak athlete, monster rebounder and can make plays from nothing.

                              He could easily put up better offensive numbers if Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings arent shitting bricks and if he doesnt have to play with an All-star caliber PF. JV is the only inside big man offensive option on this team (Amir is a garbage big man) and his stats still aren't that eyepopping.

                              How can you say the guy is Ben Wallace? Drummond has legitmiate size and unlike Wallace, Drummond isn't just a 1 dimensional shot blocker lol
                              I already told y'all, this is a 69 win team, wtf we need a 55 win team for?

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