What stats best capture players worth?

[3inthekeon]

I was a big fan of Hollinger's PER when it was introduced, but even he admitted that it captured offence much better than defence.

BRef's Win Shares seems more a group than individual stat. A poor defender playing with good defenders will get positive Defensive Win Shares for instance.

The two I've been checking recently are Real Plus Minus at ESPN and Box Plus Minus at BRef. They do seem to try to separate a players individual achievement from the teams and grade both offensive and defensive value. However even they wildly disagree on certain players.

What other stats/sites do you recommend?

[TeamEd]

I was a big fan of Hollinger's PER when it was introduced, but even he admitted that it captured offence much better than defence.

BRef's Win Shares seems more a group than individual stat. A poor defender playing with good defenders will get positive Defensive Win Shares for instance.

The two I've been checking recently are Real Plus Minus at ESPN and Box Plus Minus at BRef. They do seem to try to separate a players individual achievement from the teams and grade both offensive and defensive value. However even they wildly disagree on certain players.

What other stats/sites do you recommend?

I can't say I rely on one stat to tell the whole story, but my simple "does this player's impact match his box numbers" test is to compare his NBA.com NetRtg to his team's. It's not perfect, but at least I know how it's calculated.

On this measure, the Raps' NetRtg is +8.2 and Lou, JJ, AJ and Kyle beat that number while GV, TRoss and JV fall behind. AJ has been a NetRtg superstar for quite a while and JV fares especially poorly.

[mcHAPPY]

Ppg

[Joey]

Ppg

Lol

[3inthekeon]

I agree there is no one stat that ells the whole story, which is why I asked the question.

Net RTG is a puzzler though. It ranks the Raptors Hansbrough, Lou, JJ, Amir, DeMar, Hayes then Lowry 7th on the team..

RPM has Kyle #5 in the entire NBA behind only Curry, Cousins, Duncan and Lilliard, and 5th in WAR (which also accounts for playing time) behind Curry, Lilliard, Harden and Paul.

[3inthekeon]

Ppg

Kobe agrees.

[TeamEd]

I agree there is no one stat that ells the whole story, which is why I asked the question.

Net RTG is a puzzler though. It ranks the Raptors Hansbrough, Lou, JJ, Amir, DeMar, Hayes then Lowry 7th on the team..

RPM has Kyle #5 in the entire NBA behind only Curry, Cousins, Duncan and Lilliard, and 5th in WAR (which also accounts for playing time) behind Curry, Lilliard, Harden and Paul.

Well, for NetRtg you can discount Tyler and Chuck for small sample size. Next, you try to find an explanation for Kyle's lower than expected NetRtg. One that I think makes sense is that Kyle is logging a lot of minutes with TRoss and JV, two of the Raps' worst rotation players by on/off splits. Another is that Lou and JJ both play most of their minutes dominating opposing benches, so their NetRtg either slightly overstates their true value or correctly reflects that the bench is the Raps' greatest strength. Another might be that Kyle is excellent at collecting box score stats that inflate his advanced metrics like RPM and WAR beyond his true impact on the game. Finally, you account for the fact that Amir is a consistent on/off star.

All of these explanations for Kyle's NetRtg (a still excellent +8) relative to the rest of the team are plausible, which is why you can't rely on one stat.

[stooley]

No single stat is best. There's a good article on bleacher report right now about this (!! I know, right) every stat requires context, and no start can completely remove a player from the context that he plays within. This aint baseball

[S.R.]

No single stat is best. There's a good article on bleacher report right now about this (!! I know, right) every stat requires context, and no start can completely remove a player from the context that he plays within. This aint baseball

Bleacher Report has new ownership and real journalists now - they've still got some click bait up there but it's not BuzzFeed anymore.

Agreed you just have to know what the stat you're using measures well, and what it overlooks.

[3inthekeon]

I'm not asking for the best stat, just stats other than those I mentioned, like TeamEd's NetRtg or McHappy's ppg.

[stooley]

I'm not asking for the best stat, just stats other than those I mentioned, like TeamEd's NetRtg or McHappy's ppg.

Win shares and wins produced are fairly popular I believe. I'm on a phone now so can't elaborate, but you could probably google em

[stooley]

Every stat except netrtg is taken from the box score of I'm not mistaken

[stooley]

Every stat except netrtg is taken from the box score of I'm not mistaken

I meant rpm. Espns real plus minus is actually my favourite

[white men can't jump]

I meant rpm. Espns real plus minus is actually my favourite

I thought it was a good step in the right directon for plus minus stats....

But there's still something fishy about a stat that claims Paul Pierce was a top 5 defensive SF last year.

[3inthekeon]

No single stat is best. There's a good article on bleacher report right now about this (!! I know, right) every stat requires context, and no start can completely remove a player from the context that he plays within. This aint baseball

The BR article was terrific actually. Thanks.