Everything 2023 Draft

[bertarapsfan]

Being higher in the draft has value.

But you are not proposing they get higher in the draft automatically. You are proposing they sacrifice players on the team who are currently good players to be able to move up the draft some unspecified amount. So there is a tradeoff in value - is being a few spots higher valuable enough to counteract losing quality players? Is it enough value to accept a below-value deal for those players? Not quite so black and white.

Oh, and the Giannis draft they didn't have a pick at all (was traded for Lowry), and just didn't like the price to trade in. If they were sure Giannis was going to be Giannis, they'd have paid any price, but of course they weren't sure.

I think dealing Gary and resting guys down the stretch could have been enough to lose some more games. Seems like Gary's could be gone this off season. Would have liked to even get a bunch of 2nd rounders for him anyways and fall a bit in the standings.
To me it's always a benefit to be higher in the draft. It not even about the holding onto fred at the deadline if deals were bad. Just even taking foot off the gas would have gave us more options on draft night. 2 or 3 spot can be the difference between getting your guy or not. We don't get Scottie if we have 7 instead of 4 in 2021.

[Hotshot]

I think the Celtics are going to trade Brown win or lose but I don't think Brown is a good fit beside Dame. I think Giannis is the perfect fit to play beside Dame. Siakam is a poor man's Giannis. So Siakam to POR just makes a lot of sense.

Something like Siakam to POR for the 3rd pick and salary filler.

Another trade scenario is Siakam to BOS for Brown.

Best case scenerio is that Boston somehow flame's out in the playoffs against Miami or in the finals and Brown finally demands a trade.

Sometimes all it takes is for other franchises to fall apart for your franchise to become better.

[The Great One]

Best case scenerio is that Boston somehow flame's out in the playoffs against Miami or in the finals and Brown finally demands a trade.

Sometimes all it takes is for other franchises to fall apart for your franchise to become better.

Doesn't matter if they flame out or not. The Celtics have to trade Brown. He made the all NBA this year so he's eligible for the supermax. You're not going to be able to build a championship team if you're paying two players supermax especially if one of them is not really a supermax guy.

[planetmars]

I dont really follow the logic. Why wouldnt you want to be higher and have more options available? If they FO identified their guy being deeper in the draft just means more teams have a chance to scoop him.

The opposite end of your argument is that this front office identified Giannis and SGA. But couldn't get in the range and grab em before someone else.

Even the best drafting organizations miss out on drafts. We picked Flynn over Bane as an example. Everyone can have a list. And the guy on top of that list can be taken before they have a chance.. but it doesn't mean that guy is immediately always going to be better than the 2nd or 3rd guy on your list.

There is a lot of luck in drafting. I have complete faith in our front office in picking a gem at 13. They've been consistently awesome at it.

[saints91]

I'm content where we are in the draft. Ya, a could spots would have been better, but there are still a ton of interesting guys at 13, and quite possibly could end up being better than anyone else presently ranked from 3-10.

[DanH]

I think dealing Gary and resting guys down the stretch could have been enough to lose some more games. Seems like Gary's could be gone this off season. Would have liked to even get a bunch of 2nd rounders for him anyways and fall a bit in the standings.
To me it's always a benefit to be higher in the draft. It not even about the holding onto fred at the deadline if deals were bad. Just even taking foot off the gas would have gave us more options on draft night. 2 or 3 spot can be the difference between getting your guy or not. We don't get Scottie if we have 7 instead of 4 in 2021.

Right. Being able to get into the very cream of the crop on draft night, that is, winning the lottery, is highly valuable. The differences as you get further from that are smaller and smaller. Historically this is quite clear.

Yes, maybe Gary is gone this offseason. Not sure him being traded results in significantly more losses, certainly not "winning the lotto" number of losses. But maybe he is still here, which is obviously the bet they are making. Which can certainly be argued to be of more value than a couple 2nds or whatever value was out there for him.

[bertarapsfan]

Right. Being able to get into the very cream of the crop on draft night, that is, winning the lottery, is highly valuable. The differences as you get further from that are smaller and smaller. Historically this is quite clear.

Yes, maybe Gary is gone this offseason. Not sure him being traded results in significantly more losses, certainly not "winning the lotto" number of losses. But maybe he is still here, which is obviously the bet they are making. Which can certainly be argued to be of more value than a couple 2nds or whatever value was out there for him.

I guess we just have a diffrence of opinion on draft spots. I guess if you only see a point of winning the lotto then sure no harm no foul. I just prefer drafting at a spot with more available prospects. To each their own.

[DanH]

I guess we just have a diffrence of opinion on draft spots. I guess if you only see a point of winning the lotto then sure no harm no foul. I just prefer drafting at a spot with more available prospects. To each their own.

I prefer that too! What we're talking about is degree of preference - exactly how much value there is in each spot you move up. It's generally understood that having more options is better, but the reality is that the track record of the draft suggests that the quality of player available at each pick plateaus pretty quickly once you escape the very top of the draft, so there is some value in having a higher pick but that value is much smaller than is typically assumed.

[guyroch]

Looks like the word around is that Blazers are stupid enough to trade their pick ... Can OG or Sikam and maybe their 1st round pick
for 3rd overall get the 3rd pick overall ?

[DanH]

Looks like the word around is that Blazers are stupid enough to trade their pick ... Can OG or Sikam and maybe their 1st round pick
for 3rd overall get the 3rd pick overall ?

If it's an OG deal, have to assume it's OG plus stuff for the 3rd, and I don't know if the Raps will have the appetite for that.

If it's a Pascal deal, have to think it's the opposite, 3rd plus stuff for Pascal. And I think the Raps might be open to such a deal.

[guyroch]

If it's an OG deal, have to assume it's OG plus stuff for the 3rd, and I don't know if the Raps will have the appetite for that.

If it's a Pascal deal, have to think it's the opposite, 3rd plus stuff for Pascal. And I think the Raps might be open to such a deal.

I guess how much the Raps value Brandon Miller and or Scoot Henderson . I say the Raps really like these two then Pascal is an
asset worth giving up .. Brandon Miller I hear comes with baggage .. Masai is somebody if he really likes something he will
over pay .. Scottie , Barnes and OJ are 3 good young players to build the next future with ..

[DanH]

As for salary matching...

Portland will be operating over the cap, but under the tax (although this gets tricky if they do the deal in the spring to use 22-23 salaries). Let's assume 23-24 salaries for simplicity for now.

Pascal will make 37.9M. So Portland would need 30.2M outgoing to match.

Simons makes 24.1M, and basically has to be in the deal. Then you need 6.1M more, so Nassir Little or Shaedon Sharpe would work. So a package of Simons, Sharpe and the 3rd overall pick - given the value of the player and prospect coming back, probably don't need extra picks for that to be a good enough package. If it's Little instead of Sharpe, maybe ask for an additional future 1st (they have some flexibility there).

Is that a package Portland would be willing to part with for Pascal? I don't know, but if they want a real star to play beside Lillard that's probably the closest they get.

They'd be left with Lillard, Nurk, can re-sign Grant have one of Little/Sharpe, but their depth is definitely taking a bit of a hit (two rotation players out for Pascal).

Using this year's salaries doesn't help much (Pascal makes 35.4M, Portland would need to send 28.3M, Sharpe and Simons still just barely cut it) and if anything makes it tighter.

Could maybe see additional players on each side added to the deal, but hard to envision a deal where OG and Pascal both go, Portland doesn't have the salary, let alone the assets for both.

OG alone makes only 18.5M. So a deal for only him could exclude Simons and let them keep their depth. They'd need to send out at least 14.7M (if they want to live in the 125% tax team rule, although could get away with as little as 13.5M potentially), and we'd probably be asking for Sharpe and Little and #3 and one other small salary for matching (LOL Keon Johnson? Or just some minimum salary guy). They don't really have a bigger deal they can include. They do have an 8M trade exception, so we could send an OPJ or Thad their way for depth.

I do think Pascal makes way more sense for them to target, and it's a lot more questionable them sending so much value in an OG deal, but thought I'd see what would work financially.

[bertarapsfan]

If it's an OG deal, have to assume it's OG plus stuff for the 3rd, and I don't know if the Raps will have the appetite for that.

If it's a Pascal deal, have to think it's the opposite, 3rd plus stuff for Pascal. And I think the Raps might be open to such a deal.

Agree on Pascal value trying to remember the last time a lotto pick was traded for an all NBA player. Last I can remember was Kevin love who fetched the number 1 pick Anthony Bennett (who at the time was a bust) and thad young lol. Have to think Pascal gets us the 3 plus Sharpe or simmions for relative value to that.

[A.I]

Agree on Pascal value trying to remember the last time a lotto pick was traded for an all NBA player. Last I can remember was Kevin love who fetched the number 1 pick Anthony Bennett (who at the time was a bust) and thad young lol. Have to think Pascal gets us the 3 plus Sharpe or simmions for relative value to that.

It was actually two #1 picks that got traded for Love.

Bennett, who was already a bust in his rookie year, and Wiggins, who was the real prize. He got drafted and traded in the same off-season.

[bertarapsfan]

It was actually two #1 picks that got traded for Love.

Bennett, who was already a bust in his rookie year, and Wiggins, who was the real prize. He got drafted and traded in the same off-season.

Yea bad punctuation by me. Supposed to be a comma between number 1 pick and Bennett.