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MLSE board has weighed asking outgoing CEO Leiweke to stay

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  • #16
    It sounds like TL and LT have been at odds.

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    • #17
      I thought it was a foregone conclusion that they've at least 'weighed' the option of asking him to stay. I think the problem would be forfeiting the amount of power TL would likely demand in order to stay, no? I say do it obviously though.

      Would it be rare for the CEO to have final/veto power, regardless of what the board/owners say? Not sure, but I think it would only make sense considering you hire the guy to represent your company based on his knowledge of the sport and team building.

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      • #18
        Nilanka wrote: View Post
        Not good.
        What's funny is that they're the only ones that are surprised

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        • #19
          This effects the Leafs and Toronto FC more than the Raptor.

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          • #20
            Except a possible D-league team but MU could fill TL responsibilities there.

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            • #21
              golden wrote: View Post
              This is where I think the CBA and salary cap luxury tax penalties overly punish small market teams who build the right way, draft smartly and develop their own talent. IMO, home-grown drafted and developed picks should count as less (say 80%) toward the salary cap or something like that.
              Never thought about this before but that's a great idea! It would incentivize internal growth/good management of drafting & use of draft picks. Players would probably get behind it as the team that drafted them would probably be willing to offer more (since not all of it counts against the cap), and probably increases the amount other teams have to offer them in order to poach them.

              It also fits with Silver's goal of strengthening the D-League.

              I think 80% on all drafted players is probably to high. What about having to designated a small number of players (1-5) for the exception. Or if you do it across the board I imagine you'd have to make it a lower discount (maybe 5-15% off?)

              It I think it also removes the need for superstars to agree take a pay cut in order to build their teams. The most obvious examples are Duncan & Nowitski vs. Kobe. With the "homegrown" exception rule, teams theoretically would be able to pay them their market rate (or close to it) and still be able to add some other pieces.

              Don't really see a downside to this exception/cap relief...
              "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

              "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

              "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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              • #22
                ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                Never thought about this before but that's a great idea! It would incentivize internal growth/good management of drafting & use of draft picks. Players would probably get behind it as the team that drafted them would probably be willing to offer more (since not all of it counts against the cap), and probably increases the amount other teams have to offer them in order to poach them.

                It also fits with Silver's goal of strengthening the D-League.

                I think 80% on all drafted players is probably to high. What about having to designated a small number of players (1-5) for the exception. Or if you do it across the board I imagine you'd have to make it a lower discount (maybe 5-15% off?)

                It I think it also removes the need for superstars to agree take a pay cut in order to build their teams. The most obvious examples are Duncan & Nowitski vs. Kobe. With the "homegrown" exception rule, teams theoretically would be able to pay them their market rate (or close to it) and still be able to add some other pieces.

                Don't really see a downside to this exception/cap relief...
                Doesn't the Bird exemption accomplish the same thing. Small market teams like OKC are restricted by the luxury tax because they lose revenue sharing and also don't generate enough revenue from TV. They need more money not more space.

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                • #23
                  Primer wrote: View Post
                  OKC decided the spend their cap space on Serge Ibaka instead of Harden. They basically only had money for one without going over the cap. Ibaka is pretty damn good so I can see how it was a tough call, but I would have kept Harden and dealt Ibaka. Or just gone all out to dump Perkins on someone, throw them a bunch of picks, to have had room for both. Definitely Presti messed up there.
                  If the option is Harden vs. Ibaka, and I have team with Durant and Westbrooke I'll take Ibaka every time. Regardless, OKC gave up Harden an entire year before they had too, and that was coming out of a Finals appearance. Had Harden stayed for one more post season, the Thunder might have a trophy right now. Too me that is the biggest criticism of the Harden trade. What they got for Harden at the time, for what Harden was at the time (again he'd showed some great things but he wasn't a world beater), wasn't good enough to justify the impact it had on their likelihood of reaching the finals, or getting a trophy.
                  "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                  "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                  "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                  • #24
                    raptors999 wrote: View Post
                    Doesn't the Bird exemption accomplish the same thing. Small market teams like OKC are restricted by the luxury tax because they lose revenue sharing and also don't generate enough revenue from TV. They need more money not more space.
                    Although they are certainly similar, Bird rights don't really accomplish the same thing, if you trade for a player who has multiple years left on their contract, when that contract is up you will have their bird rights. What this is more of an extension of that idea, but taken all the way back to draft day. The big difference, between bird rights and this scenario, is that bird rights allow you to go over the cap in order to sign a player, you still have to pay all the associated taxes and cap hits and corresponding losses of MLE's, whereas in our system, a portion of that salary doesn't count, which means that additional taxes aren't paid and you wouldn't lose other MLE's.

                    Here's a simplified example (Disclaimer I don't know the ins and outs of the tax implications).

                    Let's say OKC has decided at a management level that they need to avoid the tax, and the most they can offer a player until they reach the tax is 10,000,000/year. If only 80% of that salary counts towards the cap/tax, then OKC would be able to offer 12,500,000 and still not pay into the tax. Now whether or not OKC is willing to pay that player 12.5 a year is a separate question, but it is an extra 2.5mill/year they can offer without paying additional taxes. They incentives are clear.

                    Obviously, if something along these lines are considered, people with extensive knowledge of how the salary cap and tax actually work would have to weigh. I would be curious about what our resident cap experts think of the idea.
                    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                    "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                      This could be interesting.
                      The problem with this , in 2016/17 season, the salary cap, will be 90 million with the luxury tax level commencing around 100 million dollars.

                      Making this part of the discussion totally irrelevant in the future. If you go over the luxury tax in 2015/16, you will pay only one year penalty, because of the future TV deal revenues.

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                      • #26
                        ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                        If the option is Harden vs. Ibaka, and I have team with Durant and Westbrooke I'll take Ibaka every time. Regardless, OKC gave up Harden an entire year before they had too, and that was coming out of a Finals appearance. Had Harden stayed for one more post season, the Thunder might have a trophy right now. Too me that is the biggest criticism of the Harden trade. What they got for Harden at the time, for what Harden was at the time (again he'd showed some great things but he wasn't a world beater), wasn't good enough to justify the impact it had on their likelihood of reaching the finals, or getting a trophy.
                        All true and all off the original point that OKC dumped a developing player to avoid the tax. They didn't trade Harden because they wanted Steven Adams.

                        MLSE has never done that, has always offered to re-sign up and coming players and stars. Players have left the Raps (or quit on the team) on their own accord.

                        Harold Ballard was cheap. I don't think MLSE is cheap - there are enough things to criticize about the ownership group, but unwillingness to pay salaries isn't really one of them.
                        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                        • #27
                          S.R. wrote: View Post
                          All true and all off the original point that OKC dumped a developing player to avoid the tax. They didn't trade Harden because they wanted Steven Adams.

                          MLSE has never done that, has always offered to re-sign up and coming players and stars. Players have left the Raps (or quit on the team) on their own accord.

                          Harold Ballard was cheap. I don't think MLSE is cheap - there are enough things to criticize about the ownership group, but unwillingness to pay salaries isn't really one of them.
                          I just like the idea on the whole, and agree that it's not directly applicable to previous Raptor moves.
                          "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                          "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                          "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Heatdreamer wrote: View Post
                            The problem with this , in 2016/17 season, the salary cap, will be 90 million with the luxury tax level commencing around 100 million dollars.

                            Making this part of the discussion totally irrelevant in the future. If you go over the luxury tax in 2015/16, you will pay only one year penalty, because of the future TV deal revenues.
                            Not at all. All that extra cap means is player contracts are going to be bigger. It'll take a couple years for contracts to expire and get renewed though.

                            If cap goes up 30%, you can expect salaries to go up 30% as well.
                            "Bruno?
                            Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                            He's terrible."

                            -Superjudge, 7/23

                            Hope you're wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              stooley wrote: View Post
                              Not at all. All that extra cap means is player contracts are going to be bigger. It'll take a couple years for contracts to expire and get renewed though.

                              If cap goes up 30%, you can expect salaries to go up 30% as well.
                              I think what he means is you can go over the tax now, because you'll have a hard time spending enough to get there in 2016 (since you'll probably be over the cap but way under the tax and only have exceptions to spend) so you'll avoid the repeater tax.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • #30
                                DanH wrote: View Post
                                I think what he means is you can go over the tax now, because you'll have a hard time spending enough to get there in 2016 (since you'll probably be over the cap but way under the tax and only have exceptions to spend) so you'll avoid the repeater tax.
                                Oh yeah, I see that now. My bad, Heatdreamer!
                                "Bruno?
                                Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                                He's terrible."

                                -Superjudge, 7/23

                                Hope you're wrong.

                                Comment

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