Everything Trade Deadline 2023

[planetmars]

Being real is realizing that returns are better at the deadline when teams are making a championship push. Wanna win the title? You need to meet our trade demands. There are a dozen teams who think they can win it all this season. It's a unprecedented sellers market with lots of buyers and very few sellers.

But you have to give up $20M in contracts to get that player. If a team is good.. I bet that's a lot of great players to give up to get a guy to come in to take you to the next level. It's not easy to do. So teams will offer their shit players and a prospect. Just like we could get in the summer (ala the Lowry trade).

But at that time we have more flexibility as more teams are willing to make a better trade as rosters aren't set/finalized. And you have a training camp to get guys to gel.

[Primer]

I thought you wanted a good pick this year? Lowry > Fred.

I'd be ok with playing better post trade if it's Lowry getting everyone going again.

[golden]

So he holds the cards with the S&T? Let him. I mean no team is going to trade him for a half season and watch him walk when he's making over $20M. They'll want some reassurance that he'll stay. A S&T guarantees he will stay. And if he opts in, then a team gets him for a whole year. A guy who opts in can still be traded.

You're missing a big point here.... urgency. This year, there are so many teams in position to either make the playoffs, or elevate themselves to legit contender status or whatever level they are trying to get to. That's why they are calling this year a seller's market. Fred can help those teams... now. You have to capitalize on the timing. Perfect example is the Bulls... they don't have a pick this year. The new front office mortgaged their future.... they have to make the play-in this year, or start blowing it up. Trading Fred for Lonzo helps them and us choose a direction.

You don't have the same kind of urgency and competition in the off-season, when every front office sees their team with rose-colored glasses and will probably look more soberly at adding an oft-injured, undersized, weakly creating, slumping 6th man'ish, combo guard. You also have more players available on the market, and even worse... young guards selected in the draft to compete with in the market.

[Primer]

But you have to give up $20M in contracts to get that player. If a team is good.. I bet that's a lot of great players to give up to get a guy to come in to take you to the next level. It's not easy to do. So teams will offer their shit players and a prospect. Just like we could get in the summer (ala the Lowry trade).

But at that time we have more flexibility as more teams are willing to make a better trade as rosters aren't set/finalized. And you have a training camp to get guys to gel.

We can get picks now. Teams won't include those in the off-season.

Hop into fanspo trade machine and you'll see its actually not very hard to trade either Fred or Trent.

[golden]

I saw some Heat fans propose a trade of Lowry and a 1st for Fred.

Not the sexiest deal but I think Lowry would be a great mentor to our young guys and an asset to Nurse is getting the team playing hard again.

I read somewhere that the Heat are 7-1 WITHOUT Lowry this year. lol. He's become a bit of a whipping boy for Heat fans.

Weather & golfing aside, I think Lowry would welcome a trade back to a place where he's revered.

[LJ2]

If you want to know what a "quick retool" looks like, basically look at the Spurs after Kawhi left. They tried to quickly re-build around their leftover "champions" - Patty Mills (Fred) and DeRozan (Pascal) and some useful young pieces Derrick White (OG) and DeJounte Murray (Scottie). They tread-milled for a few years until DeMar left (S&T), but they eventually had to do a full tear-down.

Now, the Spurs had a good reason to keep winning games, i.e., to get Pop the coaching record, which is kind of a franchise record, since he's done it all with them. They also picked a great draft year to try and bottom out.

Yeah these retools are tricky. I'm sure there have been some teams to pull it off but those seem to be few and far between. Event Boston with their legendary "vault" of picks took a good long while developing Tatum and Brown.

We sure could get a gigantic haul of FRP's for Pascal to build around/with Scottie, but that would be a tough one to swallow.

[planetmars]

You're missing a big point here.... urgency. This year, there are so many teams in position to either make the playoffs, or elevate themselves to legit contender status or whatever level they are trying to get to. That's why they are calling this year a seller's market. Fred can help those teams... now. You have to capitalize on the timing. Perfect example is the Bulls... they don't have a pick this year. The new front office mortgaged their future.... they have to make the play-in this year, or start blowing it up. Trading Fred for Lonzo helps them and us choose a direction.

You don't have the same kind of urgency and competition in the off-season, when every front office sees their team with rose-colored glasses and will probably look more soberly at adding an oft-injured, undersized, weakly creating, slumping 6th man'ish, combo guard. You also have more players available on the market, and even worse... young guards selected in the draft to compete with in the market.

Lonzo is the only example you could come up with that fits this profile.. and he might be damaged goods. The dude is still feeling pain to this day. That's a psychological thing. Who knows when or if he'll play again. No other team is going to give up good players now. Those good players got them to where they are (a playoff birth). They need to shed $18-20M to make a trade work. So we're going to end up with a shitty player and a prospect. The same type of stuff we can get in a S&T.

Lowry was one of the best rentals on the market, and all we couldn't get a trade done.. and there were plenty of teams looking to make themselves better then too. It's not as easy as you think here. Nobody is dumb enough to look at Fred and go.. yeah let's trade a bunch of stuff for a guy that has the league worst fg%. They will hope he returns to form after he heals up in the summer. And take a chance then.

[DanH]

Odds of nothing significant happening beyond window dressing 90%
Odds of moving GTJr 40%
Odds of zero happening "tried but couldn't find the right trading partner" 30%
Odds of moving FVV 20%
Odds of a giant earth shattering shakeup 0%

The 20% odds is what the team needs. Something for a young player, prospect and picks.

I'm confused by this. Trading Gary would just be window dressing? Trading FVV would just be window dressing?

[Primer]

Lonzo is the only example you could come up with that fits this profile.. and he might be damaged goods. The dude is still feeling pain to this day. That's a psychological thing. Who knows when or if he'll play again. No other team is going to give up good players now. Those good players got them to where they are (a playoff birth). They need to shed $18-20M to make a trade work. So we're going to end up with a shitty player and a prospect. The same type of stuff we can get in a S&T.

Lowry was one of the best rentals on the market, and all we couldn't get a trade done.. and there were plenty of teams looking to make themselves better then too. It's not as easy as you think here. Nobody is dumb enough to look at Fred and go.. yeah let's trade a bunch of stuff for a guy that has the league worst fg%. They will hope he returns to form after he heals up in the summer. And take a chance then.

I guarantee Philly is still kicking themselves in the ass they didn't pull the trigger on a Lowry trade. They probably would have won the title had they done it.

[Shredder]

Go all in on project 6'9 plus.

FVV and Birch for Bamba, Issac, and a pick

Trent to GS for Kuminga and Wiseman and a pick.

If they absolutely stink for the rest of the season (which they very well could as they would have no shooting), you trade OG and or Pascal in the offseason for a haul of young prospects and picks.

Or another one would be

FVV and Trent (and whoever else they wanted not named Scottie, OG, or Pascal) to the Pelicans for Ingram and one or more of their gluttony of picks.

[Kagemusha]

Go all in on project 6'9 plus.

FVV and Birch for Bamba, Issac, and a pick

Trent to GS for Kuminga and Wiseman and a pick.

If they absolutely stink for the rest of the season (which they very well could as they would have no shooting), you trade OG and or Pascal in the offseason for a haul of young prospects and picks.

Where will the shooting come from?

[golden]

Lonzo is the only example you could come up with that fits this profile.. and he might be damaged goods. The dude is still feeling pain to this day. That's a psychological thing. Who knows when or if he'll play again. No other team is going to give up good players now. Those good players got them to where they are (a playoff birth). They need to shed $18-20M to make a trade work. So we're going to end up with a shitty player and a prospect. The same type of stuff we can get in a S&T.

Lowry was one of the best rentals on the market, and all we couldn't get a trade done.. and there were plenty of teams looking to make themselves better then too. It's not as easy as you think here. Nobody is dumb enough to look at Fred and go.. yeah let's trade a bunch of stuff for a guy that has the league worst fg%. They will hope he returns to form after he heals up in the summer. And take a chance then.

The Tampa year wasn't a seller's market. This year... it supposedly is.

Our asking price for Lowry was insane. Morey called it (correctly)... LaLa land. If you believe the reports, our ask was Maxey, Thybulle + 2 FRPs + filler. For a rental. In a weak market. That's insane. Obviously we're not privy to the discussions, but if we could've got Maxey & a pick... in hindsight that would have been a great return.

Now... fast forward to the off-season. Lowry only wants to go to Miami, so automatically there's only 1 team to negotiate with. You have a market of 1 team, instead of the rumored Lakers, Philly and Miami with some rumors about the Pelicans at the trade deadline. That was in a weak market.

[planetmars]

The Tampa year wasn't a seller's market. This year... it supposedly is.

Our asking price for Lowry was insane. Morey called it (correctly)... LaLa land. If you believe the reports, it was Maxey, Thybulle + 2 FRPs + filler. For a rental. In a weak market. That's insane. Obviously we're not privy to the discussions, but if we could've got Maxey & a pick... in hindsight that would have been a great return.

Now... fast forward to the off-season. Lowry only wants to go to Miami, so automatically there's only 1 team to negotiate with. You have a market of 1 team, instead of the rumored Lakers, Philly and Miami with some rumors about the Pelicans at the trade deadline. That was in a weak market.

We'll see how hot the market really is this deadline. But I still don't believe Masai will blind side Fred. And no team will trade for him without assurance that he'll come back. Plus he's not playing well so it's not a sure bet he's as coveted as you think he will be.

[TomAmnot]

Ain't nobody talking about OG? Probably the one who's going to get traded afterall, no? And I think we're going to receive a lot for him.

[The Claw Reborn]

We'll see how hot the market really is this deadline. But I still don't believe Masai will blind side Fred. And no team will trade for him without assurance that he'll come back. Plus he's not playing well so it's not a sure bet he's as coveted as you think he will be.

This is just you trying to convince yourself lol.

Kawhi was even in a worse predicament than VanVleet now and yet there was one team who coveted his services and risk it for a one season rental…little differences but to reference what you just stated, that situation was even worse. There will always a team out there that would be willing to take that risk.

Masai trading VanVleet before the deadline is not blindsiding him, him betting on himself by declining what was on the table should be fair enough for Masai to reconsider other options….just fair game buddy.