Everything Trade Deadline 2023

[Bonus Jonas]

We could do something like Fred+GTJ+Thad for Russ+Bryant+2027 and 2029 1sts

They’d lose their cap space for the summer but outside of Kyrie, there’s not really a better realistic option they could land better than the combo of Fred and GTJ

Only worth doing if we feel like what Fred and GTJ are asking for is more than what they’re worth on the court obviously

[Primer]

Why would Orlando give you a top ten pick for a player they can sign in free agency with their cap space in a few months

If Orlando doesn't trade for Fred this season they probably don't get him. We'll be able to send him anywhere in the NBA via sign and trade and decent chance we keep him. It's now or never.

[Kagemusha]

If Orlando doesn't trade for Fred this season they probably don't get him. We'll be able to send him anywhere in the NBA via sign and trade and decent chance we keep him. It's now or never.

Why would they need Fred?

[WJF]

Why would they need Fred?

I’ve mentioned it before, the team is young and lacks anyone with solid/recent playoff experience. A vet like Fred could elevate some of their young guys.

[golden]

I’ve mentioned it before, the team is young and lacks anyone with solid/recent playoff experience. A vet like Fred could elevate some of their young guys.

Yep. It's like when Raptors brought in veterans like Oakley & Willis to mentor VC & T-Mac and finally break the cycle of losing to get into the playoffs. Except that Fred is in the prime of his career, so he can lead by example.

[planetmars]

Biggest issue with Orlando is that they are not a free agent destination. Fred isn't a super star or anything, but he has a say in to where he's going to play next year. He may not want to play in Orlando. The Magic are not contending this year, so wouldn't give up future's for a rental.

With the Lowry trade deadline, management gave his team total say into where he would end up. And even then no trade happened.

I'm not seeing a Fred trade at the deadline.

I think the easiest deadline moves are to trade Chris, Thad and maybe Gary (if we think he's just going to leave anyway). Fred is a summer move. As are OG and Pascal potentially.

Boucher should get a lot of suitors. He's that 8-9th man most contenders would want coming off their bench. Doesn't have to do to much.. just clean up on the board. Block some shots. And do a lot of the hustle work that is essential in the playoffs.

Can we get 2 second rounders for Chris?

[golden]

Biggest issue with Orlando is that they are not a free agent destination. Fred isn't a super star or anything, but he has a say in to where he's going to play next year. He may not want to play in Orlando. The Magic are not contending this year, so wouldn't give up future's for a rental.

With the Lowry trade deadline, management gave his team total say into where he would end up. And even then no trade happened.

I'm not seeing a Fred trade at the deadline.

I think the easiest deadline moves are to trade Chris, Thad and maybe Gary (if we think he's just going to leave anyway). Fred is a summer move. As are OG and Pascal potentially.

Boucher should get a lot of suitors. He's that 8-9th man most contenders would want coming off their bench. Doesn't have to do to much.. just clean up on the board. Block some shots. And do a lot of the hustle work that is essential in the playoffs.

Can we get 2 second rounders for Chris?

OG is the easiest guy to trade for the highest value at the trade deadline and I don’t think we’ll miss his defense. Time to trade OG is now.

Unpopular opinion, but I think that Precious can eventually do everything on defense that OG does for us now… and he won’t be concerned with getting his touches for a while.

And between Precious, Scottie and Pascal… we can match up with just about any big wing in the playoffs.

[DanH]

OG is the easiest guy to trade for the highest value at the trade deadline and I don’t think we’ll miss his defense. Time to trade OG is now.

Unpopular opinion, but I think that Precious can eventually do everything on defense that OG does for us now… and he won’t be concerned with getting his touches for a while.

And between Precious, Scottie and Pascal… we can match up with just about any big wing in the playoffs.

Defensive value stacks. The ideal is to have both a Precious AND an OG in your lineup. Considering we already have that, we should probably hold onto it.

I'm certain management's dream is to have all four of Precious, Pascal, Scottie and OG as your 2-5 and find a big PG who can shoot.

I suspect the trades that are upcoming are not about which players would bring the best return (I mean, that's Scottie and Pascal), but about who they just don't see fitting with the long term team construct. So at least one of Gary or Fred, maybe both.

That said, I mean, if there's an absolute godfather offer out there for OG, sure. Just wouldn't be writing off his value to the team - he's the one big wing defender they have that can be a great off ball shooting threat at the moment.

[golden]

Defensive value stacks. The ideal is to have both a Precious AND an OG in your lineup. Considering we already have that, we should probably hold onto it.

I'm certain management's dream is to have all four of Precious, Pascal, Scottie and OG as your 2-5 and find a big PG who can shoot.

I suspect the trades that are upcoming are not about which players would bring the best return (I mean, that's Scottie and Pascal), but about who they just don't see fitting with the long term team construct. So at least one of Gary or Fred, maybe both.

That said, I mean, if there's an absolute godfather offer out there for OG, sure. Just wouldn't be writing off his value to the team - he's the one big wing defender they have that can be a great off ball shooting threat at the moment.

Dreams and ideals don't always turn out to be the reality.

Not saying position-less can't work "in theory"... but in practice, some deficiencies have been exposed which would seem to require like 5 prime Paul George's to make "the ideal" actually work. Even then, you'd need more foot-speed and more bulk to guard the 1s and 5s.

And where has OG's elite defense gotten us now? 2nd worst opponent eFG% against in the NBA. Slightly below average team DRTG.

[DanH]

Dreams and ideals don't always turn out to be the reality.

Not saying position-less can't work "in theory"... but in practice, some deficiencies have been exposed which would seem to require like 5 prime Paul George's to make "the ideal" actually work. Even then, you'd need more foot-speed and more bulk to guard the 1s and 5s.

And where has OG's elite defense gotten us now? 2nd worst opponent eFG% against in the NBA. Slightly below average team DRTG.

Right, defence is a team game, so a single elite defender will only get you so far (the exception being an extremely conservative scheme with an elite rim protector, but that can get schemed away in the playoffs). You want as many as possible for that exact reason, and with Fred's POA defence suffering this year and Gary being the same sieve as last year but with even less activity for much of the season, never mind Precious missing so much time when he was absolutely elite last season...

Precious can guard 5's. He's the cure on that end is likely the thinking, though obviously if a major upgrade is available you always consider it (and I'm sure they are pleased with the early returns on their backup in-house option with Koloko). The ideal is to have a quick big guard who can deal with PGs. OG can certainly deal with guards as well, it is one of his strengths, though ideally you have him and another guy to handle the 1's and 2's together. You want to keep Scottie and Pascal away from those guys if possible.

[golden]

Right, defence is a team game, so a single elite defender will only get you so far (the exception being an extremely conservative scheme with an elite rim protector, but that can get schemed away in the playoffs). You want as many as possible for that exact reason, and with Fred's POA defence suffering this year and Gary being the same sieve as last year but with even less activity for much of the season, never mind Precious missing so much time when he was absolutely elite last season...

Precious can guard 5's. He's the cure on that end is likely the thinking, though obviously if a major upgrade is available you always consider it (and I'm sure they are pleased with the early returns on their backup in-house option with Koloko). The ideal is to have a quick big guard who can deal with PGs. OG can certainly deal with guards as well, it is one of his strengths, though ideally you have him and another guy to handle the 1's and 2's together. You want to keep Scottie and Pascal away from those guys if possible.

Interestingly, both Fred and Gary grade out as positives in D-EPM. Not sure how that's calculated... maybe their steals and deflections help to counteract the POA issues. Our defense isn't total garbage (despite the 2nd worse ranking in eFG%). Our team DRTG is middle of the pack, but the individual defensive talent indicates we should be at least top 10, if not top 5.... playing the way you suggest at optimal performance.

Could moving Precious into the starting lineup be the cure-all? Maybe. A lot of people wanted that out of training camp. We'll see.

[DanH]

Interestingly, both Fred and Gary grade out as positives in D-EPM. Not sure how that's calculated... maybe their steals and deflections help to counteract the POA issues. Our defense isn't total garbage (despite the 2nd worse ranking in eFG%). Our team DRTG is middle of the pack, but the individual defensive talent indicates we should be at least top 10, if not top 5.... playing the way you suggest at optimal performance.

Could moving Precious into the starting lineup be the cure-all? Maybe. A lot of people wanted that out of training camp. We'll see.

Precious definitely helps (if he can return to last year's form).

Gary is essentially break even, and the weak point of a defence can often drive its success, but the bigger issue is we have had bench players playing significant minutes, all of whom grade out as absolute garbage defensively. Which might explain some of Nick's hesitance to rest his guys, or maybe is caused by them getting so few minutes in the first place, but in any case that's where most of the finger pointing can go. Though of course you also have the small lineup minutes where these OK to great defenders are often placed at a disadvantage because they are outsized and that wastes those minutes on a bad lineup. Still, the bench: Juancho is an 11th percentile defender, Boucher break even (this year, past years he's been very good), Flynn is a 2nd percentile defender (!!!), Banton 21st, Thad 44th, Otto barely played and was a shell of himself (10th), and they aren't using Khem who is at least generally a stabilizing force.

[DanH]

Oh and no surprise Fred grades out as positive, he's still great in help and positional defence, it's just the POA where he has struggled to stay in front of guys and that sucks since we like to use him there because we like Pascal and Scottie and OG playing safety.

[Primer]

Why would they need Fred?

Go read a Magic blog. Veteran guard is their biggest need. That's coming from their rabid fans so I tend to think it's accurate. They also mention Fred as a target pretty regularly.

[G__Deane]

Changing my likelihood of happening by the trade deadline:
OG, Pascal being traded 5%
Achiuwa or Koloko moving 10% or only in a larger deal by necessity
Nothing at all 10%
Nothing of any real significance 20%
FVV moving 30%
GTJr moving 60%
SOMETHING being done 90%

I think the odds of Fred moving are slightly increasing.

Sportsnet: It was VanVleet’s only shot of the quarter as Raptors head coach Nick Nurse relied on a bench-heavy lineup anchored by Scottie Barnes and Gary Trent Jr. for the first nine minutes of the period.

“I think that was a long stretch for those guys and I think they were working really hard,” said Nurse. “We were playing zone for most of the quarter, but they were really working hard to figure out all the different formations that were coming at them. They did a great job on the glass at both ends. Lots of offensive rebounds, no offensive rebounds for them.

"And then I thought they were in a really good groove. Gary (Trent Jr.) was providing offence, Scottie (Barnes) was providing offence as those two guys should. Chris (Boucher) and Precious (Achiuwa) were cleaning up any misses. It was a heck of a long stretch for those guys.”