Game #38: Philadelphia 76ers 84 - Toronto Raptors 100

[iblastoff]

Thank you.

DeMar DeRozan on defense without him in the lineup. @DeMar_DeRozan #WeTheNorth #RTZ pic.twitter.com/A33ybcZLDa

— Raptors Republic (@raptorsrepublic) January 15, 2015

great to hear!!

[MACK11]

Forget accountability. I mean I care about that and agree....but this isn't my real beef with Vasquez playing.

Casey usually has some reason for whatever lineup he trots out. And usually, while I don't necessarily agree, there is at least some logic to it. I'd very much like to know whatever deranged nonsense was the rationale behind playing Vasquez last night. He obviously doesn't help anything on D. He was making terrible play after terrible play with the ball and shooting like shit. Chuck Hayes would've been a better choice even as a guard. That's how bad Vasquez was last night.

There's simply no reason to have Vasquez out there. It makes no sense from any angle you try to look at it, especially since Lowry was also on the floor much of the 4th. I don't care about benching him as proper accountability, I care because it's startling to think the coach thought he was bringing anything positive to the floor.

Casey usually likes to have 2 ball handlers in at all times but last night Derozan was in so there's literally no use for Vasquez.

[white men can't jump]

Casey usually likes to have 2 ball handlers in at all times but last night Derozan was in so there's literally no use for Vasquez.

Yup. And again, Vasquez was having a bad game even by his own crappy standards this year. I'd rather have Lou or even JJ in as extra ballhandlers.

[S.R.]

Forget accountability. I mean I care about that and agree....but this isn't my real beef with Vasquez playing.

Casey usually has some reason for whatever lineup he trots out. And usually, while I don't necessarily agree, there is at least some logic to it. I'd very much like to know whatever deranged nonsense was the rationale behind playing Vasquez last night. He obviously doesn't help anything on D. He was making terrible play after terrible play with the ball and shooting like shit. Chuck Hayes would've been a better choice even as a guard. That's how bad Vasquez was last night.

There's simply no reason to have Vasquez out there. It makes no sense from any angle you try to look at it, especially since Lowry was also on the floor much of the 4th. I don't care about benching him as proper accountability, I care because it's startling to think the coach thought he was bringing anything positive to the floor.

I'm not defending it, but I would guess with a vet like Vasquez the perspective would be he's a good role player currently in a slump who needs the opportunity to play himself out of it. The philosophy for benching young guys is that that's how you teach them the game (as opposed to letting them play through, which some coaches do).

It' a fine line, benching NBA vets to "teach accountability" and enforce whatever team concepts you're going for. Far easier said than done, imho. A lot of guys will get pissed, start to be resentful of their reduced role, and eventually become an even greater liability to the team. Like it or not, that's the NBA and a huge dynamic that most of us with whatever high school or university ball experience we have, have never experienced first hand.

All that said, I won't miss Vasquez when he's gone. His bad stretches have at least equalled his good ones.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Yup. And again, Vasquez was having a bad game even by his own crappy standards this year. I'd rather have Lou or even JJ in as extra ballhandlers.

Hell, when nursing a lead late, I'd rather have Fields in as a 3rd ball-handler over bad-game Vasquez, since he can defend and won't jack up stupid shots!

[white men can't jump]

I'm not defending it, but I would guess with a vet like Vasquez the perspective would be he's a good role player currently in a slump who needs the opportunity to play himself out of it. The philosophy for benching young guys is that that's how you teach them the game (as opposed to letting them play through, which some coaches do).

It' a fine line, benching NBA vets to "teach accountability" and enforce whatever team concepts you're going for. Far easier said than done, imho. A lot of guys will get pissed, start to be resentful of their reduced role, and eventually become an even greater liability to the team. Like it or not, that's the NBA and a huge dynamic that most of us with whatever high school or university ball experience we have, have never experienced first hand.

I don't know. There's a flip side to those arguments though.

First, if it does piss off other guys who are playing better because they're getting benched, then any efforts to appease Vasquez by playing him could lead to someone else feeling pissed or resentful. Other guys were playing better and sitting on the bench. That can't really be good, can it? It's not always an issue where youth and vets are pitted against each other (so to speak). Lou and JJ both would've been better choice. Both can handle the ball. And JJ has been a key piece especially with DeMar out, so you could also argue you could want to play him so that he stays strong keeping up his play and doesn't start to get frustrated.

Second, the play himself out of a slump angle is I guess the most rational one....but then why not play Ross? This kid needs to shake himself out of the funk he's in. And Vasquez didn't do anything to show signs of working out of his slump. I would even say Vasquez isn't really in a slump, per se. He's been awful in general this whole season and sporadically has a decent game here or there. Again, would much rather play Ross more. He's actually had strings of good games, and he's now in a string of bad ones. He seems more in a slump to me than Vasquez.

*Edit: Also, it's not like vets are eager to lock in and try harder in what are essentially garbage minutes against a garbage team. Not saying a young player like Ross would necessarily be more engaged, but I'm not sure it's a positive when trying to get a vet to snap out of a season-long funk

**Also, I don't really buy the angle of doing it to try and keep someone from getting pissed or resentful when they're playing like total garbage. A good vet, or true pro of any age, understand that you earn your keep and nothing's handed to you in this league. The only person they ever have the right to be pissed at is themselves, for failing to do what's expected of them (unless of course it's such a stupidly obvious case of misusing a player).

[hotfuzz]

Speaking of which, I like seeing Lowry and Vasquez look to post-up smaller/weaker defenders. So much good comes out of those possessions. Looking forward to DeRozan continuing that trend.

Wing players have no idea how to guard the post nowadays.

Also, JJ posting up. Good things usually come out of it.

Yeah, nobody knows. He was arguably the worst player on the floor for us, heck maybe even between both teams last night and still played most of the 4th.

I raise you a Ross. He's slowly becoming the worst starter in the league.

[MixxAOR]

Getting rid of Vasquez shouldn't be a problem. He's not part of long term plan. It doesn't affect our young guys in any way. His main objective (he probably doesn't realize this) is to give Lowry rest. He needs to run offense so we don't lose the lead and at least not be a negative on defense. He's failing at both. We need to make a change and get a backup pg who can let Lowry get his rest.

[psrs1]

I don't know. There's a flip side to those arguments though.

First, if it does piss off other guys who are playing better because they're getting benched, then any efforts to appease Vasquez by playing him could lead to someone else feeling pissed or resentful. Other guys were playing better and sitting on the bench. That can't really be good, can it? It's not always an issue where youth and vets are pitted against each other (so to speak). Lou and JJ both would've been better choice. Both can handle the ball. And JJ has been a key piece especially with DeMar out, so you could also argue you could want to play him so that he stays strong keeping up his play and doesn't start to get frustrated.

Second, the play himself out of a slump angle is I guess the most rational one....but then why not play Ross? This kid needs to shake himself out of the funk he's in. And Vasquez didn't do anything to show signs of working out of his slump. I would even say Vasquez isn't really in a slump, per se. He's been awful in general this whole season and sporadically has a decent game here or there. Again, would much rather play Ross more. He's actually had strings of good games, and he's now in a string of bad ones. He seems more in a slump to me than Vasquez.

*Edit: Also, it's not like vets are eager to lock in and try harder in what are essentially garbage minutes against a garbage team. Not saying a young player like Ross would necessarily be more engaged, but I'm not sure it's a positive when trying to get a vet to snap out of a season-long funk

**Also, I don't really buy the angle of doing it to try and keep someone from getting pissed or resentful when they're playing like total garbage. A good vet, or true pro of any age, understand that you earn your keep and nothing's handed to you in this league. The only person they ever have the right to be pissed at is themselves, for failing to do what's expected of them (unless of course it's such a stupidly obvious case of misusing a player).

Well said. GV continues to stimulate a lot of discussion on this forum.

[OldSkoolCool]

Why did GV play?

Because Casey has major chubs for certain players regardless of logic

And he is a bad coach

#fireCasey

[grindhouse]

James Johnson has to learn to sell the play. The coach is going to him or derozan but if James does look like he may get the ball it fucks up the play. Go back and forth between D and James and throw Lowry and JV into the mix to keep everyone honest


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[The Great One]

Why did GV play?

Because Casey has major chubs for certain players regardless of logic

And he is a bad coach

#fireCasey

Because he's their backup PG and the only true PG on this team along with Lowry. What do you want him to do exactly? play Lou or DeRozan at the point?

[MACK11]

Because he's their backup PG and the only true PG on this team along with Lowry. What do you want him to do exactly? play Lou or DeRozan at the point?

Chuck Hayes can play better PG then Vasquez right now!

[DanH]

Well, if GV is only playing backup PG minutes, he should be around 14 MPG. It's minutes above that that I don't like.

[white men can't jump]

Because he's their backup PG and the only true PG on this team along with Lowry. What do you want him to do exactly? play Lou or DeRozan at the point?

He played him WITH Lowry on the floor for most of the 4th in a game where he was playing like total shit.