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Everything 2023 Off-season

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  • Dort is not good, he's absolutely freaking terrible on offense and his defense is overrated. Low IQ player.

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    • -Everybody coming back
      -Healthy Porter
      -Good rookie
      -Two end of the bench guys getting better
      -Internal growth



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      • Can anyone honestly sell my on Fred coming back?

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        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
          Can anyone honestly sell my on Fred coming back?
          I don't know what the argument for letting him walk is, unless he gets paid just a crazy amount of money. If you establish that it's easier to build a counter to show why you keep him.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
            Can anyone honestly sell my on Fred coming back?
            Should have been traded

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            • DanH wrote: View Post

              I don't know what the argument for letting him walk is, unless he gets paid just a crazy amount of money. If you establish that it's easier to build a counter to show why you keep him.
              sign and trade I am totally ok with that. But the case for letting him walk for nothing is simple. The team culture seems broken in that lockerroom. These things don't magically get fixed. So unless you expect things to magically get fixed it appears as though he may have to be the one going. It helps others to grow. Now obviously sign and trade is one option no one has not been in favor of. So that has already been discussed.

              He is a good player but you can be a good player and still end up holding ppl on your team back.

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              • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

                sign and trade I am totally ok with that. But the case for letting him walk for nothing is simple. The team culture seems broken in that lockerroom. These things don't magically get fixed. So unless you expect things to magically get fixed it appears as though he may have to be the one going. It helps others to grow. Now obviously sign and trade is one option no one has not been in favor of. So that has already been discussed.

                He is a good player but you can be a good player and still end up holding ppl on your team back.
                Oh. Well I don't buy basically any of that. Team culture is just fine, that's just another way to say "the team is winning right now so everyone is happy" versus being not happy when they aren't winning. And the team has shown they can roll to victories with their only real limiter right now being depth - which you don't fix by letting talent walk.

                The cream rises to the top on its own, you don't need to clear players out of the way if they are helping you win. Now, high usage players who are detrimental to winning, that's the sort of thing that needs to be moved on from. That's the Rudy Gay situation. There's zero evidence Fred or Pascal or frankly anyone on the team is having that sort of effect on the team.

                Scottie will take on a bigger role as he becomes comfortable doing so. He has a ways to go, but the team already sends him plenty of opportunity, he just turns most of it down right now. Taking away the talent around him will just make his life harder when he does make that confidence leap.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                  Can anyone honestly sell my on Fred coming back?
                  Retaining assets is the best reason. We need to get him on a value contract though. If we give him $30+ that's awful value and he'll be difficult to trade.

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                  • Primer wrote: View Post

                    Retaining assets is the best reason. We need to get him on a value contract though. If we give him $30+ that's awful value and he'll be difficult to trade.
                    Yeah, we made our bed with Fred, now we have to lay in it. Masai and Bobby just kept getting deeper and deeper with Fred - building our team around an undersized combo guard. And Nurse was the chief enabler.

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                    • Primer wrote: View Post

                      Retaining assets is the best reason. We need to get him on a value contract though. If we give him $30+ that's awful value and he'll be difficult to trade.
                      30M is not remotely bad value in this cap environment.

                      If it gets up into the 35-40M AAV range that gets trickier to maintain positive value on.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • Primer wrote: View Post

                        Retaining assets is the best reason. We need to get him on a value contract though. If we give him $30+ that's awful value and he'll be difficult to trade.
                        I think he gets around what was reported as being offered. I believe that was around $28M per, but correct me if I'm wrong.

                        Masai is notorious for evaluating and allowing the players to show what they can do. If $28M was what was offered preseason then Fred hasn't done anything this season to show that he is deserving of more.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post

                          30M is not remotely bad value in this cap environment.

                          If it gets up into the 35-40M AAV range that gets trickier to maintain positive value on.
                          I don't see Fred at $30M being an attractive asset to other teams. I absolutely don't wanna keep him long term so I'm looking at it purely from a trade value standpoint.

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                          • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                            I think he gets around what was reported as being offered. I believe that was around $28M per, but correct me if I'm wrong.

                            Masai is notorious for evaluating and allowing the players to show what they can do. If $28M was what was offered preseason then Fred hasn't done anything this season to show that he is deserving of more.
                            Fred turned down (or wouldn’t even consider) 28.5m/yr - the max extension on his current contract. He said publicly that he outplayed that max.

                            He’s clearly looking for Herro/Poole money. How high into the 30s, is the roster blocking question.

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                            • Herro's AAV is $30M. And that's about 20-21% of the cap. I always thought 25% is the utmost ceiling for Fred. If we have to pay more than that, it's a bad contract. 25% or under is salvageable.

                              Raptors are in a bind since we have no quality guards on the roster. So I think it was smart of Fred to wait things out.

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                              • golden wrote: View Post

                                Fred turned down (or wouldn’t even consider) 28.5m/yr - the max extension on his current contract. He said publicly that he outplayed that max.

                                He’s clearly looking for Herro/Poole money. How high into the 30s, is the roster blocking question.
                                Do you have a link to where I can find that quote? My understanding of the interview I think you are referring to was that he was speaking about having outplayed his current contract, which he absolutely has.

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