Miles Plumlee Toronto Raptors Bound? Center In Exchange For Terrence Ross Rumored!

[tDotted]

But ifRoss ever puts it all together, he gets my vote.

That's a big if.

[3inthekeon]

Is he any further behind in his development than DeRozan was? That sounds eerily familiar to the constant criticism of DD for his first few years in the league. For a guy who's really only been playing regularly for a little over a year, expectations seem unnaturally high. He's got skills to be a solid 3&D SG, with lots of work to go to improve, gain consistency and reach his potential. I think more than anything else, the expectations placed on him were far too lofty heading into this season, cemented into a starting role.

Ross is only a year and a half younger than DD. He's now played over 4700 NBA minutes.

DD was raw when he was drafted, His worst PER, his rookie season, was better than Ross has put up in any season, including this one .

Suffice it to say, you like TRoss far more than I do,. and have far more hope for future development.

Hope your right and I'm wrong.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Ross is only a year and a half younger than DD. He's now played over 4700 NBA minutes.

DD was raw when he was drafted, His worst PER, his rookie season, was better than Ross has put up in any season, including this one .

Suffice it to say, you like TRoss far more than I do,. and have far more hope for future development.

Hope your right and I'm wrong.

I don't have stats at my fingertips to back this up, but the eye test would argue that there's no comparison as far as usage/opportunity/room for error is concerned. By his 3rd season, DeRozan was a co-#1 offensive option with Bargnani. Ross is playing out of position, in a system not designed to maximize his natural abilities, seemingly on a relatively short leash.

I'm not trying to make excuses, because I agree that playing time and opportunity need to be earned, but it's not really an apples-to-apples type comparison.

I am hopeful, but not necessarily under DC and/or alongside DeRozan. It very well mean that he needs a new home to fully blossom.

[breakin_ankles]

I don't have stats at my fingertips to back this up, but the eye test would argue that there's no comparison as far as usage/opportunity/room for error is concerned. By his 3rd season, DeRozan was a co-#1 offensive option with Bargnani. Ross is playing out of position, in a system not designed to maximize his natural abilities, seemingly on a relatively short leash.

I'm not trying to make excuses, because I agree that playing time and opportunity need to be earned, but it's not really an apples-to-apples type comparison.

I am hopeful, but not necessarily under DC and/or alongside DeRozan. It very well mean that he needs a new home to fully blossom.

Which is why we should explore a trade, if we aren't going to set him up for success or proper development then what's the point.

And as for what I said above regarding Lou, Ross & JJ... Lou is a potential 6th man of the year, and JJ is a lock down defender who stays within the flow of the offense to score his points... Does anybody truly believe Ross will bring any of that to the table within this year or the next? Because if not we should trade him for something we actually need to move to the next level.

[breakin_ankles]

For those not watching this sun's-rockets game, it's 3 minutes in and plumlee is setting solid screens, has a block on harden, has forced a steal and a 3 second call with his low post defence. Please somebody tell me he wouldn't give our bench an edge...

[caccia]

For those not watching this Suns-Rockets game, it's 3 minutes in and Plumlee is setting solid screens, has a block on Harden, has forced a steal and a 3 second call with his low post defence. Please somebody tell me he wouldn't give our bench an edge...

Sounds a lot like what Tyler gives us, just not as good, except for blocks:

DRgt Plumlee 104.6, Tyler 98 (the only one of the rotation players under 100)

Net Rtg Plumlee 1.4, Tyler 13.3 (fifth in the NBA among players with 27 games or more)

RB% Plumlee 15.1, Tyler 15.5 (second on the team)

Turnover ratio Plumlee 15.5, Tyler 9.5 (lower is better)

TS% Plumlee 55.1, Tyler 54.9

Steals per 36 Plumlee 0.6, Tyler 0.4

Blocks per 36 Plumlee 1.0, Tyler 0.2

[breakin_ankles]

Sounds a lot like what Tyler gives us, just not as good, except for blocks:

DRgt Plumlee 104.6, Tyler 98 (the only one of the rotation players under 100)

Net Rtg Plumlee 1.4, Tyler 13.3 (fifth in the NBA among players with 27 games or more)

RB% Plumlee 15.1, Tyler 15.5 (second on the team)

Turnover ratio Plumlee 15.5, Tyler 9.5 (lower is better)

TS% Plumlee 55.1, Tyler 54.9

Steals per 36 Plumlee 0.6, Tyler 0.4

Blocks per 36 Plumlee 1.0, Tyler 0.2

Problem is Tyler is not 7 Feet tall, so when we play teams with size his numbers don't measure up to those stats.

[white men can't jump]

Problem is Tyler is not 7 Feet tall, so when we play teams with size his numbers don't measure up to those stats.

Neither is Miles Plumlee. He's listed at 6'11'', and that seems generous. Even if he is really that height, he's really not very long, and doesn't play that "big" a game.

Just to add to the comparison, despite being an inch or two shorter, Hansbrough actually has a slightly (half an inch) longer standing reach. (per draftexpress)

[Chr1s1anL]

Seems like Gibson is the prime target.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/art...asai-ujiri.htm

[big boi]

Not a chance... Obviously you don't have a shoe game either.
Demar worships Kobe and on 9/10 nigh5s he will be wearing a set of Kobe's most recent shoes. Ross is always wearing all kinds of retro Jordan's, the odd time he will wear Kobe's but it is usually Jordan's, other guys on the team who have some nice sets are Amir and Lou

Amir does has some nice kicks. Step up your shoe game bitches!!

[Nilanka]

Seems like Gibson is the prime target.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/art...asai-ujiri.htm

It's funny that the article mentions Hibbert as an option. As unconventional as it would be, a starting front court of Jonas and Hibbert would mean zero points in the paint surrendered

But I cringe at the thought of either of those guys guarding a versatile PF (e.g. Dirk, Griffin, Millsap, etc.).

[Letter N]

Seems like Gibson is the prime target.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/art...asai-ujiri.htm

Taj......

[magoon]

The way I look at it, I want to trade with Phoenix not so much for Plumlee but for Ennis. Ennis is the real prize, and people saying "he's a backup point guard" are simply wrong: he's got Andre Miller's career written all over his future, a smart defender and playmaker who also knows how to score when necessary. (His jumper is still wobbly but it's already better than Miller's was when Miller was a rook.) He can be our starting PG three or four years from now when Kyle needs to start taking less minutes and/or gets massively overpaid by the Knicks or something.

Plumlee is a perfectly decent backup big man who's soon going to become even more redundant in Phoenix's game when they sign Amar'e Stoudemire after the Knicks buy Stat out. (Write it down. It's going to happen. Stat will be gloriously welcomed back to Phoenix, he fits in perfectly with their game, and you have to believe Stat wants a reunion with the legendary Phoenix training staff.) But he doesn't really fit in our plans longterm.

Ideally, I say we trade Ross+our 2015 first for Plumlee and Ennis, then flip Plumlee immediately to a team willing to give us a 2016 first for him (Portland and Cleveland would be the most obvious candidates since they both need another solid big). This year's draft is solid but it's not as rich as 2016 looks to be, and it's better for us to stockpile picks in 2016 to increase our chances of getting a difference-maker. (Plus, as an additional incentive, Thon Maker and Justin Jackson will both most likely be in that draft, and quality Canadians matter.)

If we need an additional big, I'd go after Andrew Nicholson. The Magic are shopping him, and although he's not much on offense, he's a great defensive big. Plus he can likely be had cheaply.

[Axel]

The way I look at it, I want to trade with Phoenix not so much for Plumlee but for Ennis. Ennis is the real prize, and people saying "he's a backup point guard" are simply wrong: he's got Andre Miller's career written all over his future, a smart defender and playmaker who also knows how to score when necessary. (His jumper is still wobbly but it's already better than Miller's was when Miller was a rook.) He can be our starting PG three or four years from now when Kyle needs to start taking less minutes and/or gets massively overpaid by the Knicks or something.

Plumlee is a perfectly decent backup big man who's soon going to become even more redundant in Phoenix's game when they sign Amar'e Stoudemire after the Knicks buy Stat out. (Write it down. It's going to happen. Stat will be gloriously welcomed back to Phoenix, he fits in perfectly with their game, and you have to believe Stat wants a reunion with the legendary Phoenix training staff.) But he doesn't really fit in our plans longterm.

Ideally, I say we trade Ross+our 2015 first for Plumlee and Ennis, then flip Plumlee immediately to a team willing to give us a 2016 first for him (Portland and Cleveland would be the most obvious candidates since they both need another solid big). This year's draft is solid but it's not as rich as 2016 looks to be, and it's better for us to stockpile picks in 2016 to increase our chances of getting a difference-maker. (Plus, as an additional incentive, Thon Maker and Justin Jackson will both most likely be in that draft, and quality Canadians matter.)

If we need an additional big, I'd go after Andrew Nicholson. The Magic are shopping him, and although he's not much on offense, he's a great defensive big. Plus he can likely be had cheaply.

Since I'm the one who thinks Ennis is a career back-up (at best), I'm going to have respond

Miller is an interesting choice for comparison. Both are 6'2, but they are physically not very alike. Ennis has a slight frame while Miller has always been more stocky.

When you look at their rookie seasons (Ennis is 20, Miller was 23), it's hard to mark too many similarities. Miller played 25.5 MPG while Ennis is getting a paltry 7.3 MPG; so scale is completely off (Miller logged over 2000 mins, while Ennis is at 58 ~ so statistically comparison is almost completely impossible).

Neither have great range, but Ennis is much more willing to pull the trigger from deep (avg 0.8 3PA in 7 mins, compared to Miller's 0.6 in 25 mins), hoisting 3.7 3PA per 36 (which is Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison, Jrue Holiday territory). Ennis turns the ball over at a much higher rate (26.8% to 15.8%). Ennis doesn't have the post game (or size advantage) of Miller, so stylistically, they don't seem that alike.

The game has changed a fair bit from Miller's rookie year (1999-2000), so that could account for more 3's simply based on team concepts, but ultimately, I really don't see many comparables. Both have high bball IQs, but Ennis has a lot to prove before he should be mentioned in the same breathe as "The Professor".



I do like the idea of getting Nicholson on the cheap. Really, my issue with the proposed deal is asset management. I think Ennis/Plumlee is an overpay as rumoured. I like Plumlee, but not at the asking price. Nicholson is a buy low player, and that makes much more sense than overpaying for guys.

[magoon]

The game has changed a fair bit from Miller's rookie year (1999-2000), so that could account for more 3's simply based on team concepts, but ultimately, I really don't see many comparables. Both have high bball IQs, but Ennis has a lot to prove before he should be mentioned in the same breathe as "The Professor".

To be clear, my comparison to Miller isn't based on post game (which is why Miller always had high FG% and terrible three-point range). It's based on neither being an elite athlete, but making up for that with defense and playmaking/floor reading, two things Miller was excellent at in his prime, two things Ennis excelled at in college, and which are the two things that are traditionally hardest for point guards to learn. You can teach a jumper; you can't make a point guard smart.

I do like the idea of getting Nicholson on the cheap. Really, my issue with the proposed deal is asset management. I think Ennis/Plumlee is an overpay as rumoured. I like Plumlee, but not at the asking price. Nicholson is a buy low player, and that makes much more sense than overpaying for guys.

I think Ross + a first for Ennis/Plumlee is reasonable value. Ennis and Plumlee are both assets but they're also both superfluous to Phoenix right now - Ennis is the team's fourth point guard behind Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas (and Ennis was clearly drafted as Phoenix's insurance in case Bledsoe walked) and Plumlee is the team's fourth big behind Markieff Morris, Alex Len and Brandan Wright - and if/when the Suns sign Amar'e he'll be the FIFTH big.

Plumlee is a solid bench guy (maybe more, but probably not) and Ennis is a good prospect (and he's not even the Suns' favorite prospect - that's TJ Warren), but they're Phoenix' end of the bench guys. Turning them into Ross - someone who isn't working out in Toronto but clearly has all the tools to excel, and who frankly is much more suited to Phoenix' run-and-gun system than Toronto's mid-pace game - and a draft pick is a solid return for Phoenix.

And if we then turn Plumlee into a pick in return - since we really don't need a backup center long term - that means we trade Ross for Ennis. And I think that's a good return for Ross, who isn't likely to get better value; he's simply not going to excel here. We don't play his game, and that's not a knock on Ross, and the longer he plays for us the less value he'll return.