What would you do?

[The Great One]

No they don't, your blind ignorance to the player we do have is pretty ridiculous

You're lying lol.

[breakin_ankles]

25/15 huh? lol

This conversation is def over.

Trade JV! Did those 2 words hurt your feelings? lol

No they don't, your blind ignorance to the player we do have is pretty ridiculous

[blackjitsu]

The 2004 Pistons team was the only exception for sure.

The Mavs team that beat the Heat had Dirk. One of the 10 greatest player to ever play the game. #Talent

So 1 HOF> 3 HOFs?

On paper, I would put those Hakeem Rockets teams in the discussion as well. The 2nd best player turned out to be Rob Horry. Chemistry IS important. Talent on its own means nothing. Chemistry allows talented players to know their role. Its the reason why Bosh stepped back to let Lebron and Wade shine. Why Kobe and Shaq didn't stay together. Why Barkley never won a title. Talent is not the be all and end all.

Maybe Chemistry is the wrong word to use. It insinuates that players making sacrifices for their team over themselves means that they have significantly less talent than the top scorers.

So why do I think moving JV for Boogie makes 0 sense.

DMC on the Kings plays the same role for them as Demar and Lowry have for the Raps. You're going to replace a player who is comfortable in a secondary role here, who is improving without a lot less plays run for him, for a high usage player that would limit usage by Demar and Lowry. Just being great, doesn't mean that 3 of these guys could find a usage balance that satisfied them and led to more wins.

And for the record Boogie is my favorite non-Rap. Every fantasy league I enter I try to draft him (to my teams' detriment) -- he's that good. But that doesn't mean that bringing in an uber talent makes a team better. Look at the Rockets. What killed the Rockets was the migration of Barkley and Drexler replacing guys like Maxiell and Kenny. Players need to fit on teams that allow each player to excel. It's the reason why the Hawks are leading the East right now, why OKC is titleless, and why JV is the right C for this team.

Personally, the issue is not the PF position. Moving Amir to the bench would be awesome -- it could extend his career, but he is a lot better than many posters here realize. The real issue for the Raps is perimeter defense. When your best starting perimeter defender is Demar Derozan you should be concerned. The Raps have not a had a real starting SF since Garbo, and Ross is listless -- infinite talent with a short attention span. Is JJ an NBA starter? He's an actual SF, that puts him above Ross in my book. But the fastest way to improve this team would be to find a legit starting SF who fits the system that they play.

The next fastest way to improve this team? Own a D League team.

[The Great One]

TRex you are obviously just all on cousins dick... Do you think for a second that if we traded for him and Casey chose to treat him as he treats JV that he would take it in stride? No. He is a loose cannon, it showed very clearly when we played him and Amir (!!) was playing great defence on him. He is the number one option franchise player for Sacramento. He is also 2 years older than JV. Give JV 2 more years of development and I would definitely be willing to bet that he will be a 25/15 center in this league. He already operates with one of the lowest minute totals out of current starting centres and gets way less respect from referees yet is considered top 10 by statistics. Just kill this dumb argument.

25/15 huh? lol

This conversation is def over.

Trade JV! Did those 2 words hurt your feelings? lol

[breakin_ankles]

TRex you are obviously just all on cousins dick... Do you think for a second that if we traded for him and Casey chose to treat him as he treats JV that he would take it in stride? No. He is a loose cannon, it showed very clearly when we played him and Amir (!!) was playing great defence on him. He is the number one option franchise player for Sacramento. He is also 2 years older than JV. Give JV 2 more years of development and I would definitely be willing to bet that he will be a 25/15 center in this league. He already operates with one of the lowest minute totals out of current starting centres and gets way less respect from referees yet is considered top 10 by statistics. Just kill this dumb argument.

[planetmars]

I'd definitely take a chance on Cousins.. and would trade JV for him. JV is awesome but will never be as good as Cousins is. And Cousins can be distracted but he's only 24 years old as well. Malone was able to get to him, and I'm sure another coach/system could as well. He just needs a reason to want to play well. I'm sure playoff basketball would do that.

And he can't be that much of a knuckle head if the USA squad asked him to play at Worlds.

[The Great One]

What the fuck man, where did I say that? I'm just pointing out how you're in no way accounting for chemistry at all. You made a blanket statement that "talent wins, not chemistry"....Chemistry can win with less talent. Talent cannot win without chemistry.

Building around talent with the wrong mental makeup (ie hard to build a team with good chemistry around) is often the worst mistake you can make across ALL sports, not just basketball. There are tons of guys who've been extremely talented players in the league and simply not the right guys to build with. They can have various issues. Some can just have poor bball IQ. Others are bad teammates off the court. Others are just egomaniacs who don't really care about winning. And I'm sure lots of other shit.

Point is, there's no way to automatically assume a change in situation will make things click and make a guy "get it". And if you waste assets getting a guy like Cousins, and spend 4-5 years trying to build around him only to find out he's not a centrepiece on a contender, you've set your team back pretty much a decade (since it's likely you'll have to blow it up and rebuild).

I compared him to Anthony Davis because they both play now, but to put it simply again, a dominant big man putting up the numbers Cousins is should have more of an impact for his team in the win column. If everything has to be "perfect" for him to play a winning game, I don't want that guy, because teams will hit rough patches.

As I said before, I simply don't want to be the team to take the risk. One of the biggest reasons the Raptors are so good is because of chemistry and the mentality of guys on the team. Hard workers who are all on the same page and enjoy going to war together.

**Also a reason I've cooled off quite a bit on Tobias Harris as the season has gone on. Seen a few Magic games and he can look like he's just playing for himself.

Fair enough.

As for Harris, don't like him on my team, not a fan of his game at all.

[white men can't jump]

Yes, but it's not a foregone conclusion that Cousins would kill chemistry. It's just speculation.

If Rasheed Wallace, Dennis Rodman and Zach Randolph type personalities can find rosters to thrive in, I can't see why Cousins can't, especially on a perennial playoff team (which the Raptors are slowly becoming).

Rasheed and Rodman may have gotten things like techs, but they were smart players and great teammates on the court. Randolph was not, and had to nearly wash out of the league for things to click. And for every guy who "gets it", there are JR Riders, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Shawn Kemp, Gilbert Arenas, etc....Guys whose own personalities doom their chances to be what they can be and take their teams to the promised land.

[white men can't jump]

So you're saying the Raps has a chance to win the Championship this year? wanna bet?

Talent wins in this league, not chemistry. 2004 Pistons team the only exception. By talent i mean SUPERSTAR talent, not borderline all stars like DeRozan and Lowry.

What the fuck man, where did I say that? I'm just pointing out how you're in no way accounting for chemistry at all. You made a blanket statement that "talent wins, not chemistry"....Chemistry can win with less talent. Talent cannot win without chemistry.

Building around talent with the wrong mental makeup (ie hard to build a team with good chemistry around) is often the worst mistake you can make across ALL sports, not just basketball. There are tons of guys who've been extremely talented players in the league and simply not the right guys to build with. They can have various issues. Some can just have poor bball IQ. Others are bad teammates off the court. Others are just egomaniacs who don't really care about winning. And I'm sure lots of other shit.

Point is, there's no way to automatically assume a change in situation will make things click and make a guy "get it". And if you waste assets getting a guy like Cousins, and spend 4-5 years trying to build around him only to find out he's not a centrepiece on a contender, you've set your team back pretty much a decade (since it's likely you'll have to blow it up and rebuild).

I compared him to Anthony Davis because they both play now, but to put it simply again, a dominant big man putting up the numbers Cousins is should have more of an impact for his team in the win column. If everything has to be "perfect" for him to play a winning game, I don't want that guy, because teams will hit rough patches.

As I said before, I simply don't want to be the team to take the risk. One of the biggest reasons the Raptors are so good is because of chemistry and the mentality of guys on the team. Hard workers who are all on the same page and enjoy going to war together.

**Also a reason I've cooled off quite a bit on Tobias Harris as the season has gone on. Seen a few Magic games and he can look like he's just playing for himself.

[RandomGuy]

So what are you saying? if Duncan was drafted by let's say the Raptors. He wouldn't be what he is now?

His development and production may have been way slower, that's what I am saying. I never saw a player underproduce in San Antonio. Tony Parker was 28th, Kawhi 15th pick, Manu Ginobili 57th pick. If you like simple stats so much, you should agree with me on that.

[The Great One]

Last years Tim Duncan(38), Tony Parker (32) and Manu Ginobili (37)? This is what I call thinking in one dimension... I mean, isn't it's obvious that they are who they are "HOF" because, they played within a system, which embraced chemistry and unselfish play, what eventually elevated their performance?

So what are you saying? if Duncan was drafted by let's say the Raptors. He wouldn't be what he is now?

[RandomGuy]

I think you're the one who should think first before posting lol.

Tim Duncan. Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. They're pretty good. Future Hall of Famers. Yeah i think you can call them superstar players.

Last years Tim Duncan(38), Tony Parker (32) and Manu Ginobili (37)? This is what I call thinking in one dimension... I mean, isn't it's obvious that they are who they are "HOF" because, they played within a system, which embraced chemistry and unselfish play, what eventually elevated their performance?

[The Great One]

Doesn't the bold prove the point that talent + chemistry > talent alone, even if the talent without chemistry is superior to the lesser talent that has chemistry?

Chemistry isn't just in the locker room or how well the players get along. It's all about fit, knowing/accepting roles, and having complementary talent. Just look at how the US has lost international competitions when they just threw the best individual players together and expected to walk all over lesser teams - that's why Coach K was brought in, because the US realized how important chemistry was, even when assembling the most talented team possible.

Obviously you need to surround that talent with a great supporting cast. If Cousins had DeRozan and Lowry, and Amir and Patterson on his team, that team would contend.

[Matt Damon]

I think you're the one who should think first before posting lol.

Tim Duncan. Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. They're pretty good. Future Hall of Famers. Yeah i think you can call them superstar players.

Formerly, superstar players. Currently, great players.

[Matt Damon]

It doesn't really matter if the Heat had 10 future HOF'ers. The Mavs had Dirk. Who's a future hall of famer himself.

One player in this league makes all the difference in the world.

Absoulutely, with only five players on the floor at a time, one superstar can play practically all game and run show on the right night, regardless of who is on the other team.