so what?
whats you r point?
are you making one just to hear your own thoughts?
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How Much Does Eastern Conference Suckage Matter?
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octothorp wrote: View PostComparing Toronto's record against the west to western teams' record against the west, Toronto is ahead of Portland, San Antonio, and Dallas (and behind Golden State, Memphis, Clippers, Houston, and New Orleans), good for sixth in the conference. The margin between Houston, New Orleans, Toronto, and Portland is really thin.
Honestly all of this is mostly a reply to the "yeah, well we're 33-15 so everything must be pretty good" comment I'm seeing more and more. Hey, I love 33 wins before the All-Star break, but just flip conferences and this team could be 50/50 for just making the playoffs instead of talking about the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
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S.R. wrote: View PostA great point was just raised in another thread: our 33-15 Raptors are only 10-11 against +.500 teams. They've racked up a nice and tidy 9-0 record against an awful Atlantic division, and are 23-8 in the Eastern Conference.
Memphis is 13-10.
Chicago is 13-10.
Clippers are 11-12.
San Antonio is 13-12.
Toronto is 10-11.
Cleveland is 11-12.
Phoenix is 11-12.
Washington is 10-12.
Houston is 10-12.
Dallas is 11-13.
Portland is 10-13.
S.R. wrote: View PostIn other words, in the West I think the Raps would be in a dog fight just to make the playoffs. Their current WP% against the West (10-7 = 0.588) would put them in 8th spot, with Phoenix a half game behind them and a now healthy OKC closing in.
Comparing Toronto's record against the west to western teams' record against the west, Toronto is ahead of Portland, San Antonio, and Dallas (and behind Golden State, Memphis, Clippers, Houston, and New Orleans), good for sixth in the conference. The margin between Houston, New Orleans, Toronto, and Portland is really thin.
All of which is to say that yes, there's a lot of teams that are closely bunched. And so far, only Golden State and Atlanta appear to be above the fray. But I don't see anything in the statistics you give that suggest that Toronto is toward the lower end of that grouping. Not saying that the argument can't be made. Just that it's not there in these stats.Last edited by octothorp; Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:40 PM.
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If we discount the no-defense GSW game and the tired tail end to our road trip PHX game, we were pretty competitive with most of the Western Conference. We battled refs and took Portland to overtime, we competed with Memphis until the last few minutes, we beat the Clippers, and we played a TERRIBLE game and lost Demar against Dallas.
So I'd say we would be a playoff team, but more so in the 7-8 seed range.
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planetmars wrote: View PostI think it matters in the sense that it reconfirms that the Raptors are not serious contenders.. But, if you had your expectations in check, that's not really that much of a bummer. I don't think Masai believes they are contenders either.
The ultimate prize is a championship.. not a 2nd round playoff birth. So the only concern I would have is if this team ends up on the treadmill. The good thing is that there is a lot of youth on this team, and a lot of that youth is locked up, and unlike prior years they will have a lot of flexibility in terms of cap space. Weltman and Masai have had pretty good track records in drafting and scouting. So I have faith they would be able to find someone good in the mid 20's in the draft.
Things are looking up.. and with the right couple of moves this team could easily go from pretender to contender.
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Being in the EC gives us one of the top spots, no doubt. I do believe we'd be a playoff team in the West, just with a lower seeding.
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I think it matters in the sense that it reconfirms that the Raptors are not serious contenders.. But, if you had your expectations in check, that's not really that much of a bummer. I don't think Masai believes they are contenders either.
The ultimate prize is a championship.. not a 2nd round playoff birth. So the only concern I would have is if this team ends up on the treadmill. The good thing is that there is a lot of youth on this team, and a lot of that youth is locked up, and unlike prior years they will have a lot of flexibility in terms of cap space. Weltman and Masai have had pretty good track records in drafting and scouting. So I have faith they would be able to find someone good in the mid 20's in the draft.
Things are looking up.. and with the right couple of moves this team could easily go from pretender to contender.
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do you have the numbers against +500 teams with and without demar ? I feel that would change the results too
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How Much Does Eastern Conference Suckage Matter?
A great point was just raised in another thread: our 33-15 Raptors are only 10-11 against +.500 teams. They've racked up a nice and tidy 9-0 record against an awful Atlantic division, and are 23-8 in the Eastern Conference.
In the West, the defending champion San Antonio Spurs are 30-18 and sitting in 7th (!). The Suns are 8th, the New Orleans Pelicans are building around an MVP-candidate and are currently 9th, and OKC is 10th.
Question: where do you think this Raptors team would sit in the West? Realistically I'd put them in that 7-10 range. When everybody's healthy, they're definitely not as good as the Spurs and OKC (both have had loads of injuries) but would likely compete pretty well with Phoenix, and New Orleans.
In other words, in the West I think the Raps would be in a dog fight just to make the playoffs. Their current WP% against the West (10-7 = 0.588) would put them in 8th spot, with Phoenix a half game behind them and a now healthy OKC closing in.
Would any of your opinions change if this team was 28-20 in the West with a 50/50 (or whatever chance you want to give it) shot at the making the playoffs as the 8 seed?
BTW I'm just pulling the numbers out for the sake of discussion - I'm not assuming everything would extrapolate perfectly.Tags: None
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