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Problem w/ the Offence

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  • #46
    cinqueda wrote: View Post
    I would like to hear one too, I don't enjoy hating on my team, I almost want there to be some basis for it, so I can understand but I just can't work out why we keep doing the same things, remember when we put GV on tyreke evans? we tried to use him to guard joe johnson last night, I get that DD and Ross are small and get pushed off all the time, but why would GV do better? honestly I wouldn't mind trying 2pat on him, he's been surprisingly good on some wings players, not for the whole game of course but I'd prefer him their than vasquez. and has JJ got to play against the nets? i realise he was injured last time but before that I didn't notice it much although we did win so that's something.
    If James Johnson is benched due to some off court issue that DC doesn't want to expose I'd be cool with that. In fact it wouldn't surprise me. DC is a good guy and probably doesn't want to ruin chemistry and perception of his players nor the team.

    But if he's benched for basketball reasons as he claims...... Wow , mind blow .

    As arrogant as it sounds,, I think I would do a better job if only they gave me a chance. Lol
    2006-07 NBA Coach of the Year

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    • #47
      SamMitchells wrote: View Post
      If James Johnson is benched due to some off court issue that DC doesn't want to expose I'd be cool with that. In fact it wouldn't surprise me. DC is a good guy and probably doesn't want to ruin chemistry and perception of his players nor the team.

      But if he's benched for basketball reasons as he claims...... Wow , mind blow .

      As arrogant as it sounds,, I think I would do a better job if only they gave me a chance. Lol
      I'd need to know all the details to see if I'd be happy with his punishment* or not.

      I don't get what happened, he knew what he was doing last year we had a good team, and we filled our holes well with personell, then this is happening. I can't say I'd do a better job I don't know enough x's and o's but damned if i wouldn't try all my line ups out at least once, develop the players who are the future of the team, not play my worst defensive line ups to close out games, pull guards out when they got to trigger happy, and run systems that cater to my players not the oppositions.
      Last edited by cinqueda; Thu Feb 5, 2015, 05:54 PM.

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      • #48

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        • #49
          godkingleonidas wrote: View Post
          he did a video on our post gay offence last year, raved about it a bit and now we run iso's and more isos

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          • #50
            The problem isn't the 3's. The problem is the off-the-dribble 3's.

            Catch and shoot threes: 39%
            Pull-up threes: 28%

            And a full third of all our three point attempts are pull-up threes. Craziness.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • #51
              Another problem with the offense is the same problem found on defense. On defense, we can't keep opposing wings/guards from driving to the rim. Conversely, our wings/guards can't get to the rim so, they turn the ball over or jack up low percentage shots.

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              • #52
                DanH wrote: View Post
                The problem isn't the 3's. The problem is the off-the-dribble 3's.

                Catch and shoot threes: 39%
                Pull-up threes: 28%

                And a full third of all our three point attempts are pull-up threes. Craziness.
                Where do you find these numbers, Dan?
                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                • #53
                  DanH wrote: View Post
                  The problem isn't the 3's. The problem is the off-the-dribble 3's.

                  Catch and shoot threes: 39%
                  Pull-up threes: 28%

                  And a full third of all our three point attempts are pull-up threes. Craziness.
                  And of those catch & shoot three's, how many of them are primary or 2nd option, swinging the ball to the open shooter "in-rhythm" threes vs. bailout, contested or near end-of-clock threes.

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                  • #54
                    These criticisms are all fair - there is lots of room for improvement.

                    But it's important to keep perspective. Our offense f*cking rocks this league.
                    "Bruno?
                    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                    He's terrible."

                    -Superjudge, 7/23

                    Hope you're wrong.

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                    • #55
                      3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                      Where do you find these numbers, Dan?
                      NBA.com -> Team Stats -> Raptors -> Tracking (drop down menu) -> Shots
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • #56
                        DanH wrote: View Post
                        NBA.com -> Team Stats -> Raptors -> Tracking (drop down menu) -> Shots
                        Thank you.
                        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                        • #57
                          stooley wrote: View Post
                          These criticisms are all fair - there is lots of room for improvement.

                          But it's important to keep perspective. Our offense f*cking rocks this league.
                          Why do u keep saying this?

                          Our offence has been exposed. It's EXTREMELY predictable . You are absolutely incorrect and please don't show me a stats from earlier in this season.

                          Yes this team has GREAT offensive players. And they did devise offensive ISO schemes which gave the players shots where they like it. But it was such a brain dead unadjustable plan that is totally ruined. Our offence does not rock , it socks.

                          You keep saying this lol. Do you even watch the games - to be specific post Portland?
                          Because I don't give 2 cents about the blowout 40 point game we had against Milwaukee early this season. I care about the last game we played them in.
                          Even the forefront of Dwayne Casey's supporters admit the offence looks terrible And plead don't give me that " guys not making shots they usually make"
                          The real issue is " guys are expected to make extremely tough shots"

                          It's easy when no one studies your offence but when your rank 1 in the league, your going to raise some eye brows. Raptors don't get easy shots and contested 3's and long twos with no ball movement or complete fail of play calling is not a high percentage look.
                          If your on a hot streak, which these players are capable of doing (goes to show their skill) . Sure in that case Lou Williams can do some crazy stuff, maybe Lowry and demar making circus shots they don't consistently make.

                          But if the offence was good , these would be wide open looks.

                          Lets see what happens tonight vs the clippers , will the clippers adjust? How much will we score. Will they be contested shots? Are guys expected to make contested shots? Complete free lancing , pick up basketball offence ?
                          2006-07 NBA Coach of the Year

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                          • #58
                            SamMitchells wrote: View Post
                            Why do u keep saying this?
                            Ok... because it does? It's second best in the league?

                            I'm talking purely about effectiveness here. I know there's room for improvement, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that from the tone here, it comes off as if our offense isn't working at all, not that it isn't working as well as possible.

                            SamMitchells wrote: View Post
                            Our offence has been exposed. It's EXTREMELY predictable . You are absolutely incorrect and please don't show me a stats from earlier in this season.

                            Yes this team has GREAT offensive players. And they did devise offensive ISO schemes which gave the players shots where they like it. But it was such a brain dead unadjustable plan that is totally ruined. Our offence does not rock , it socks.

                            You keep saying this lol. Do you even watch the games - to be specific post Portland?
                            Because I don't give 2 cents about the blowout 40 point game we had against Milwaukee early this season. I care about the last game we played them in.
                            Even the forefront of Dwayne Casey's supporters admit the offence looks terrible And plead don't give me that " guys not making shots they usually make"
                            The real issue is " guys are expected to make extremely tough shots"

                            It's easy when no one studies your offence but when your rank 1 in the league, your going to raise some eye brows. Raptors don't get easy shots and contested 3's and long twos with no ball movement or complete fail of play calling is not a high percentage look.
                            If your on a hot streak, which these players are capable of doing (goes to show their skill) . Sure in that case Lou Williams can do some crazy stuff, maybe Lowry and demar making circus shots they don't consistently make.

                            But if the offence was good , these would be wide open looks.

                            Lets see what happens tonight vs the clippers , will the clippers adjust? How much will we score. Will they be contested shots? Are guys expected to make contested shots? Complete free lancing , pick up basketball offence ?
                            So... let me try and summarize your points here:

                            Our offense is number 2 in the league by ORTG that's fact - here http://www.basketball-reference.com/...5_ratings.html
                            and number 4 by OFFRTG - http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/...F_RATING&dir=1

                            We have to start from there. It's our baseline.

                            1. Our offense has gotten worse since the Portland game.
                            That's true, our OFFRTG has dropped from 4th to 9th (I cant get ORTG by month, don't know where to find it) from that game through today

                            2. That drop is caused by teams figuring out how to stop our offense, and will therefore continue throughout the season unless our style of offense changes.

                            Maybe.
                            But in the period since we broke our 'slump' from the road trip through the Memphis game, we're back up to fifth in OffRtg (those teams were mostly crappy, but averaged out, we played essentially a league average defense through that stretch).

                            Philly: 12th best Drtg
                            Detroit: 18th best Drtg
                            Indiana: 11th best Drtg
                            Sacramento: 26th best Drtg
                            Brooklyn: 17th best Drtg
                            Washington: 10th best Drtg
                            Milwaukee: 3rd best Drtg
                            Brooklyn: 17th best Drtg

                            For an average of 14.25

                            On top of that you have issues of small sample sizes which should lead someone looking purely at the stats to not stray too far from the overall number, which includes that stretch of bad games.

                            And finally, yes, I do watch the games. And I've seen the same thing you have, and it looks ugly. But I'm also aware that my bias as a fan, along with having watched a lot less of other teams, makes it hard for me to objectively compare the EFFECTIVENESS of our offense to other teams, which is why I'm relying so much on stats.

                            One more thing: what happens tonight vs the clippers isn't going to prove anything. It's one game.
                            Last edited by stooley; Fri Feb 6, 2015, 05:10 PM.
                            "Bruno?
                            Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                            He's terrible."

                            -Superjudge, 7/23

                            Hope you're wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              November
                              110.6 OFFRT(#2) 101.8 DEFRT(#10)

                              December
                              112.9 OFFRT(#1) 106.0 DEFRT(#20)

                              January
                              105.3 OFFRT(#9) 105.9 DEFRT(#26)

                              February
                              94.6 OFFRT(#28) 104.0 DEFRT(#16)

                              noticing a trend? looks like we've been figured out especially on offence, and we got a hard month ahead so february may end up looking even worse february we've been playing mostly bottom ten offensive teams and look at our defRT for it..

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                              • #60
                                cinqueda wrote: View Post
                                November
                                110.6 OFFRT(#2) 101.8 DEFRT(#10)

                                December
                                112.9 OFFRT(#1) 106.0 DEFRT(#20)

                                January
                                105.3 OFFRT(#9) 105.9 DEFRT(#26)

                                February
                                94.6 OFFRT(#28) 104.0 DEFRT(#16)

                                noticing a trend? looks like we've been figured out especially on offence, and we got a hard month ahead so february may end up looking even worse february we've been playing mostly bottom ten offensive teams and look at our defRT for it..
                                yeah, it does. but the February part is only two games, and the January part includes our 'slump'
                                "Bruno?
                                Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                                He's terrible."

                                -Superjudge, 7/23

                                Hope you're wrong.

                                Comment

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