Who's going to be the new head coach of the Toronto Raptors?

[Kagemusha]

Yes because Fred and Pascal are winning players. That's why I don't understand the Fred hate, but that's beside the point. Fred and Pascal are gone right? So both of them? That's a tanking team. Especially if we're replacing them with losing players like Simons and Anthony. And I'm sorry the idea of an elite rookie is fun, most rookies are not winning players in their first year of their careers.

Is that why the Raps were so successful since they took over?

[A.I]

Yeah the Lowry non-trade worked out, and I think Masai learned his lesson there. He had ample reasons to try again when DeMar and Kyle kept flaming out but just kept adding to that core until it worked. I don't see any signs of him now believing in a tear down working. It's just never been his m.o. And even again in the press conference he never hinted about tearing things down.

Difference is Kyle and DeMar were consistently top seeds and eventually made it to the ECF.

Masai doesn't usually hint to much during press conferences anyway. I agree, rebuilding isn't high, but I'm stuck on the fact that Masai will have to pay big money to re-sign Poeltl and Fred this off-season. Gary too, but not sure he'll be back. Next off-season, Pascal and OG are FAs and you'll have to pay them as well to keep this core together.

Thats a lot of re-signing and money being thrown at the current core that hasn't shown they can win together.

[planetmars]

Difference is Kyle and DeMar were consistently top seeds and eventually made it to the ECF.

Masai doesn't usually hint to much during press conferences anyway. I agree, rebuilding isn't high, but I'm stuck on the fact that Masai will have to pay big money to re-sign Poeltl and Fred this off-season. Gary too, but not sure he'll be back. Next off-season, Pascal and OG are FAs and you'll have to pay them as well to keep this core together.

Thats a lot of re-signing and money being thrown at the current core that hasn't shown they can win together.

Fred's value took a dip. Maybe Pascal's will as well. They can replace Gary with a cheap draft pick. There are avenues to run it back without worrying about the cap situation.

But he had those same problems with DeMar, Lowry and JV were all getting paid.. and then bringing in Carroll, Serge and PJ on top of that, etc.

[planetmars]

Is that why the Raps were so successful since they took over?

I don't get your point. Winning players means when they played they won their minutes. When they sat the team bled points. And they lost half their games because of that. Depth was a serious issue. As was the way the team was put together (not many shooters, only brought in a true center in February, etc).

[Primer]

Yes because Fred and Pascal are winning players. That's why I don't understand the Fred hate, but that's beside the point. Fred and Pascal are gone right? So both of them? That's a tanking team. Especially if we're replacing them with losing players like Simons and Anthony. And I'm sorry the idea of an elite rookie is fun, most rookies are not winning players in their first year of their careers.

Losing players because their team wasn't good, but only specific guys you don't like on those teams are losing players. My god your level of analysis is garbage.

[Primer]

I don't get your point. Winning players means when they played they won their minutes. When they sat the team bled points. And they lost half their games because of that. Depth was a serious issue. As was the way the team was put together (not many shooters, only brought in a true center in February, etc).

We lost half our games when both of them played!

We lost half our games when one of them was out!

We lost half our games when both of them were out!

How the hell are they winning players when it doesn't matter if they play or not, same result?

[planetmars]

We lost half our games when both of them played!

We lost half our games when one of them was out!

We lost half our games when both of them were out!

How the hell are they winning players when it doesn't matter if they play or not, same result?

You don't understand context at all do you?

[planetmars]

Losing players because their team wasn't good, but only specific guys you don't like on those teams are losing players. My god your level of analysis is garbage.

There are stats to determine if a guy wins his minutes or not.. I'm using those stats. It's not that difficult.

[DanH]

To be clear, I think it is far more likely we bring everybody back than we tear it down.

But if we trade Pascal and Fred, it's not to tank and try to get down into those top 6 picks. It's to add your rebuild talent through that trade immediately, and then do other stuff with the roster (like keeping OG, Trent, Jak, etc) to try to still be pretty good, so your newly added and already here young talent can develop in a winning environment.

[RaptorsVictim]

What do the people here think of Mike Budenholzer ?
He has been fired from Bucks, Do you think he is a good option for us ?

[DanH]

What do the people here think of Mike Budenholzer ?
He has been fired from Bucks, Do you think he is a good option for us ?

Nope.

[LJ2]

To be clear, I think it is far more likely we bring everybody back than we tear it down.

But if we trade Pascal and Fred, it's not to tank and try to get down into those top 6 picks. It's to add your rebuild talent through that trade immediately, and then do other stuff with the roster (like keeping OG, Trent, Jak, etc) to try to still be pretty good, so your newly added and already here young talent can develop in a winning environment.

You gotta admit though, if they trade both Pascal and Fred, the team is going to be pretty bad if they are getting young players back. They may not need to try and tank, it could just happen organically.

[DanH]

You gotta admit though, if they trade both Pascal and Fred, the team is going to be pretty bad if they are getting young players back. They may not need to try and tank, it could just happen organically.

Oh, I suspect they'd not be as bad as you assume. Low 30's sort of win total, maybe high 20's. So, borderline top 10 pick maybe? Could be much better if those young players take steps of course.

But not bad enough to reliably keep that pick via the protections. So the intent will likely be to be as competitive as possible for development purposes, rather than worrying about where their pick will land.

[LJ2]

Oh, I suspect they'd not be as bad as you assume. Low 30's sort of win total, maybe high 20's. So, borderline top 10 pick maybe? Could be much better if those young players take steps of course.

But not bad enough to reliably keep that pick via the protections. So the intent will likely be to be as competitive as possible for development purposes, rather than worrying about where their pick will land.

Yeah, the Bosh years is where my head was going. Hopefully we won't be in that treadmill zone for long, but we'll definitely be there if we trade Pascal and Fred for young players.

[G____Deane]

To be clear, I think it is far more likely we bring everybody back than we tear it down.

But if we trade Pascal and Fred, it's not to tank and try to get down into those top 6 picks. It's to add your rebuild talent through that trade immediately, and then do other stuff with the roster (like keeping OG, Trent, Jak, etc) to try to still be pretty good, so your newly added and already here young talent can develop in a winning environment.

I think you're always optimistic of this team incl Fred and Pascal but your wildly optimistic of this team without Fred and Pascal while adding some young talent that even you said won't be contributing for a few years. How is "low 30's, high 20" wins is in any way a winning environment? And the "already here young talent" would be stepping well back from today's "winning" environment