Who do you Got ? Raptors , Heat or Nuggets

[guyroch]

2019 Philly, GSW and the Bucks were all better teams than the 2023 Heat. I would put the Nuggets on par with the Sixers team that the Raps beat in 7. That would be a close series.

If that Philly's team gave the keys to Butler to lead them like we gave Kawhi they might have written a different story ..
Simmons had a perfect team for him .. All he had to do is concentrate on defense cause they had a roster that didn't need him to score ..

[bertarapsfan]

Would that 2019 team have a healthy, Jokic-stopping, OG? Then yes.

This is the key. 2019 raptors technically didn't have OG available. And he has been the best jokic defender I maybe have seen. Remember that game he had like 8 steals guarding him?

I think what we are seeing from Jokic right now is better then kawhi was in 2019. Kawhi peaked in the Sixers series. By the time we reached the finals it was a full team effort not the kawhi show. I think we lose in 7 to this version of the nugs.

[Primer]

OG the "Jokic Stopper" feels more like Raptors myth than reality. Kind of like the "Raptors are elite at teaching shooting" mythology that so many around here believe (or used to).

He's not a stopper but their head to head stats show OG always holds him below his season averages across the board. So he is able to somewhat hinder Jokic. They're still monster games from Jokic though because his season averages are insane.

[DanH]

OG the "Jokic Stopper" feels more like Raptors myth than reality. Kind of like the "Raptors are elite at teaching shooting" mythology that so many around here believe (or used to).

Nope. I mean, there's no such true thing as a Jokic stopper, but OG is the closest the league has right now. Has had a number of games of limiting Jokic's effectiveness. Jokic will still get his, largely, but with OG you can make it tough, and hang with the Nuggets.

Like, this season, the Raps split two games against the Nuggets. In one, they stayed primarily with OG guarding Jokic one on one, and Jokic scored well over OG (went 8 for 9) but the Nuggets put up an ORTG of 99 in the 60% of Jokic's time on the court where it was OG on him (about 180 when OG was not guarding him). 4 turnovers, only 3 assists in that time. Exactly what you want to happen. Lost the first game they played, where OG did an even better job and Jokic barely scored at all and was again unimpressive playmaking (5 assists, 3 turnovers) while OG was guarding him, again with a 105 team ORTG in that time, this time Jokic's success when OG was not on him was too great to overcome, as basically anyone else on Jokic led to a team ORTG for the Nuggets of 174.

Ultimately the difference in winning or losing was putting up a good enough ORTG, but largely because of the minutes where they didn't hard match OG to Jokic, otherwise a more reasonable offensive performance could have held up.

Raps' bench being useless didn't help either as they didn't exactly cave in the Nuggets while Jokic rested. But none of that would be a concern with the 2019 team, of course.

[MixxAOR]

I would take Nuggets over 2019 Raptors team. Jokic is just a different beast entirely.

[slaw]

2019 Philly, GSW and the Bucks were all better teams than the 2023 Heat. I would put the Nuggets on par with the Sixers team that the Raps beat in 7. That would be a close series.

[Joey]

Jokic is something the league has never seen. He has a combination of size and skills that are almost literally impossible to neutralize fully. And these Nuggz are deep as well. I'll take the '19 Raps, but like Mars said, I ain't putting money on them.

[golden]

Those 76ers were stacked. Embiid AND Jimmy. Bucks they needed one adjustment and then they reverse swept them.

Our play against Jokic is OG. He's had shockingly consistent success against Jokic. Of course OG was hurt that run but he was on the team, so fuzzy on whether that would be on the table in this scenario.

I honestly think the Nuggets sweep this Heat team though. As silly a bet as that feels with how the Heat have been beating the odds all playoffs long.

OG the "Jokic Stopper" feels more like Raptors myth than reality. Kind of like the "Raptors are elite at teaching shooting" mythology that so many around here believe (or used to).

[G____Deane]

I'd be shocked if the heat take more than 1 game

[DanH]

I got Raptors because I'm a homer, but I'd have a hard time betting on it.

Those Raptors still struggled a bit.. went 7 against the 76ers. 6 against the Bucks and were down 0-2. I don't think they'd beat the Nuggets. Jokic is really tough to beat. Marc has the IQ to slow him down somewhat, but Jokic's lethalness is not with his scoring prowess. It's with his IQ/vision/etc.. and the only way to slow him down is to get him into foul trouble which you don't have much control over.

The Clippers with a somewhat healthy Kawhi (he's never really been completely healthy) got stopped in 7 by these Nuggets and that was without guys like Gordon (although they had Grant) and KCP and when Jokic wasn't quite yet Jokic either. Of course those Clippers weren't as good as the Raptors, but those Nuggets are not the same as they are now either.

I think they beat the Heat in 5 or 6 and quite handily in the games they win.

Those 76ers were stacked. Embiid AND Jimmy. Bucks they needed one adjustment and then they reverse swept them.

Our play against Jokic is OG. He's had shockingly consistent success against Jokic. Of course OG was hurt that run but he was on the team, so fuzzy on whether that would be on the table in this scenario.

I honestly think the Nuggets sweep this Heat team though. As silly a bet as that feels with how the Heat have been beating the odds all playoffs long.

[Jclaw]

as an aside, not sure if they did but if either of the sports networks aired the 2019 Game 1 last night, I would definitely have flipped back and forth

[Jclaw]

Would that 2019 team have a healthy, Jokic-stopping, OG? Then yes.

[guyroch]

Yeah that 2019 Raps team with peak Kawhi and maybe the deepest roster in history might have been able to beat any championship team outside of the true dynasties like MJ's Bulls, the Warriors... On the same level as those Spurs teams, I think. Just a crazy good team. Could have been a dynasty ourselves if Kawhi wasn't a rental (or broken, as he seems to be now). Oh well.

I don't think the U.S media gives them enough props to the 2019 Raptors .. Kawhi was giving the Raptors a MJ playoff type of performance .. His Scottie was Spicey P .. Saying that .. Both Scottie and Spicy P didn't achieve team sucess after they lost their batman ..

[planetmars]

I got Raptors because I'm a homer, but I'd have a hard time betting on it.

Those Raptors still struggled a bit.. went 7 against the 76ers. 6 against the Bucks and were down 0-2. I don't think they'd beat the Nuggets. Jokic is really tough to beat. Marc has the IQ to slow him down somewhat, but Jokic's lethalness is not with his scoring prowess. It's with his IQ/vision/etc.. and the only way to slow him down is to get him into foul trouble which you don't have much control over.

The Clippers with a somewhat healthy Kawhi (he's never really been completely healthy) got stopped in 7 by these Nuggets and that was without guys like Gordon (although they had Grant) and KCP and when Jokic wasn't quite yet Jokic either. Of course those Clippers weren't as good as the Raptors, but those Nuggets are not the same as they are now either.

I think they beat the Heat in 5 or 6 and quite handily in the games they win.

[DanH]

Yeah that 2019 Raps team with peak Kawhi and maybe the deepest roster in history might have been able to beat any championship team outside of the true dynasties like MJ's Bulls, the Warriors... On the same level as those Spurs teams, I think. Just a crazy good team. Could have been a dynasty ourselves if Kawhi wasn't a rental (or broken, as he seems to be now). Oh well.