Raptors Defensive Issues - BBallBreakdown

[caccia]

Hard to believe that the writer chose not to discuss Patterson and Hansbrough, two of the team's best defenders. Hansbrough happens to fit the system well, despite playing out of position at centre. He also defends the pick and roll better than Valanciunas, especially when paired with Patterson.

[consmap]

The article talks a lot about how DeMar really helps the defense, but I wonder how much of that is a result of him guarding the lesser wing player most of the time (not counting that one game where he guarded LeBron). Kyle ends up guarding whatever speedy Gonzales of a point guard the other team has to offer, and Ross/JJ usually end up with the tougher wing assignments.

[3inthekeon]

Memphis and the Pacers have build very good defences around stay-at-home centres who protect the rim.

Jonas has a lot to learn, but he's already a very good rim protector and he's going to get less mobile as he ages and probably gains weight (he's already filled out his frame quite a bit since his first year) - this system doesn't make much sense now and it makes even less for the Raps' future.

Aren't the vast majority of good D's built from the C out? Rangey/scrambling D's like Miami's were basically compensating for the fact that they didn't have a rim-protecting C. The Raps have one and Casey's trying to pound him into a square hole.

The Raptors have the lowest Keep-in-Front% in the league. PG's blow by our perimeter defenders. What can any C do to stop that?

[DanH]

The Raptors have the lowest Keep-in-Front% in the league. PG's blow by our perimeter defenders. What can any C do to stop that?

Funny thing is JV is actually doing a pretty good job of cleaning up the mess. He ranks very well in rim protection stats. Problem is, even if you are cleaning up well, if you are doing it every play there are bound to be breakdowns.

[3inthekeon]

Funny thing is JV is actually doing a pretty good job of cleaning up the mess. He ranks very well in rim protection stats. Problem is, even if you are cleaning up well, if you are doing it every play there are bound to be breakdowns.

Exactly. Memphis D may be anchored by Gasol, but Tony Allen usually guards and neutralizes opponents PG's - makes Gasol's job a hell of a lot easier.

Chicago's D has taken a big step back,, the biggest reasons being Rose has been pretty shitty defending the perimeter and Butler has been saving his energy for the offensive end (a fact he admits, with the proviso he does turn up his D in the 4th).

[MACK11]

The Raptors have the lowest Keep-in-Front% in the league. PG's blow by our perimeter defenders. What can any C do to stop that?

Only the Elite defensive C's can have a chance to even stop all these guys running into the paint constantly.

Raptors need to figure out a way to stop all these blow bys. How can they expect a 22 year old C to clean up everyone's mess every single game?

[golden]

I've got a crazy theory. Our guards are conserving themselves for offense, because the ISO heavy offense requires them to expend so much energy to create their own shots or get fouled. Jimmy Butler said his defense dropped off this year because he's being asked to do more on offense. Conversely, teams like the Hawks and GSW use ball movement and spacing to create offense, so they have more energy left to guard their man on defense. It really does come down to that first initial pèrimeter containment by our guards. Lowry might be the worst right now, and has been trending down as his usage has increased.

Here's Butler's interesting quote that got me thinking....

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story...ffling-defense

But Butler admitted that his newfound offensive prowess has made it harder for him to buckle down defensively.

"You have to pick and choose your battles and save your energy for both ends of the floor now,'' said Butler, who leads the NBA at 39.8 minutes per game. "I'm not going to lie, I thought it was going to be easier than it is. But to go on one end and produce and then go on the other end and have to stop the best player on the opposing team is not always an easy task.'

[3inthekeon]

I've got a crazy theory. Our guards are conserving themselves for offense, because the ISO heavy offense requires them to expend so much energy to create their own shots or get fouled. Jimmy Butler said his defense dropped off this year because he's being asked to do more on offense. Conversely, teams like the Hawks and GSW use ball movement and spacing to create offense, so they have more energy left to guard their man on defense. It really does come down to that first initial pèrimeter containment by our guards. Lowry might be the worst right now, and has been trending down as his usage has increased.

Here's Butler's interesting quote that got me thinking....

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story...ffling-defense

But Butler admitted that his newfound offensive prowess has made it harder for him to buckle down defensively.

"You have to pick and choose your battles and save your energy for both ends of the floor now,'' said Butler, who leads the NBA at 39.8 minutes per game. "I'm not going to lie, I thought it was going to be easier than it is. But to go on one end and produce and then go on the other end and have to stop the best player on the opposing team is not always an easy task.'

Don't think it's the ISO heavy offence.

Lowry's issues are much like Butler's. Focal point of the offence and both are Top 10 in the NBA in minutes played.

Vasquez and Lou are just physically limited. GV simply doesn't the foot speed to keep up with quick guards and Lou has the unfortunate combo of being skinny and undersized.

The most baffling and infuriating is Ross, who should have tons of energy for the defensive end, yet has the worst defensive metrics of all 4. How does a player with his athleticism allow frikkin' Andre Miller (among many others) to blow by him?

[golden]

Don't think it's the ISO heavy offence.

Lowry's issues are much like Butler's. Focal point of the offence and both are Top 10 in the NBA in minutes played.

Vasquez and Lou are just physically limited. GV simply doesn't the foot speed to keep up with quick guards and Lou has the unfortunate combo of being skinny and undersized.

The most baffling and infuriating is Ross, who should have tons of energy for the defensive end, yet has the worst defensive metrics of all 4. How does a player with his athleticism allow frikkin' Andre Miller (among many others) to blow by him?

Good counters, there. We agree on Lowry, so maybe that's the main issue right there.

I'm also skeptical whenever I hear the 'physical limitations' theory tossed around as a primary reason for bad defense. You've got historically bad defenders like Steph Curry, Kyle Korver, Lillard, Aldridge, Parker, Kemba, Harden, Z-Bo, etc... anchoring top 10 defenses. Way too many exceptions to the physical limitation theory to be valid, IMO.

Not that it isn't relevant, though. Jose Calderon and Jeremy Lin come to mind.

[3inthekeon]

Good counters, there. We agree on Lowry, so maybe that's the main issue right there.

I'm also skeptical whenever I hear the 'physical limitations' theory tossed around as a primary reason for bad defense. You've got historically bad defenders like Steph Curry, Kyle Korver, Lillard, Aldridge, Parker, Kemba, Harden, Z-Bo, etc... anchoring top 10 defenses. Way too many exceptions to the physical limitation theory to be valid, IMO.

Not that it isn't relevant, though. Jose Calderon and Jeremy Lin come to mind.

Agree with your point that physical limitations can be overstated, but the examples you quoted aren't defensive anchors.

The examples you quoted, Parker is playing the worst defence of any PG in the league this year, but he also plays with some damn good defenders to help clean up his messes. Kemba's metrics aren't much better than Vasquez and worse than Lou's. this year. Don't watch the Hornets, but I would guess they try to use MKG on opposing PG's when possible, just like the Grizz use Tony Allen..

Lowry isn't a bad defender overall, GV does use his size to compensate somewhat on D, Lou uses his quickness, which seems to be improving after his injury. But the common problem is point of attack with our team. And the combo of poor perimeter D and a defensively inexperienced JV causes a lot of issues.

[3inthekeon]

http://giant.gfycat.com/IckyFilthyGallowaycow.webm

Sorry I don't know how to make this a GIF rather than a link, but I had to put up this Lowry D clip.

Nene gives a nice pass to Gortat who looks like he has an easy layup, until Lowry flies in and changes an easy 2 into a forced pass. Then when the shot is taken, look who's boxing out Gortat.

[DDelight]

http://giant.gfycat.com/IckyFilthyGallowaycow.webm

Sorry I don't know how to make this a GIF rather than a link, but I had to put up this Lowry D clip.

Nene gives a nice pass to Gortat who looks like he has an easy layup, until Lowry flies in and changes an easy 2 into a forced pass. Then when the shot is taken, look who's boxing out Gortat.

But was that just a good example of Lowry because it didn't involve him needing to keep John Wall from blowing by him? In this day in age, it's very hard to find players that can keep point guards in front of them. With the foot speed and use of screens to contend with, most point guards are going to be hard to contain.

That's why the hedging that PPat and Amir do are so important. I understand why Casey doesn't like relying on JV because he's just too slow. He's probably naturally slow but the extra weight he put on didn't help. I hope with JJ inserted into the starting lineup, we may fair better with our overall "team" defense that could allow us to have less system breakdowns.

[3inthekeon]

I was just trying to give an example of why Lowry has plus defensive metrics, even though he doesn't contain opponents PG's very well.

And yeah, there are a lot of really good PG's in the league which makes a guy like Tony Allen so valuable.

And TBH, maybe being ranked 20th on D is actually good considering our poor PG D and JV's limitations , both physical and youth.

[Other Scott]

The Raptors have bad defense because they have bad defensive players. I know there's a tendency to think offense=talent, defense=system, but there isn't really a system that makes bad defensive players suddenly look good.

The article made a huge deal about how crucial DeMar DeRozan was to the Raptors defense. If you're defense is depending on an average defender like DeRozan to be your crucial cog, there may be some personnel issues there.

Could the system be adapted to play to strengths and to hide limitations better? Probably. But teams like Golden State and Houston have the luxury of being able to hide bad defenders like Curry, Harden, etc. because they have good defenders to cover. With Amir playing hurt, the Raptors don't really have any super good defenders like those teams do.

[golden]

Agree with your point that physical limitations can be overstated, but the examples you quoted aren't defensive anchors.

The examples you quoted, Parker is playing the worst defence of any PG in the league this year, but he also plays with some damn good defenders to help clean up his messes. Kemba's metrics aren't much better than Vasquez and worse than Lou's. this year. Don't watch the Hornets, but I would guess they try to use MKG on opposing PG's when possible, just like the Grizz use Tony Allen..

Lowry isn't a bad defender overall, GV does use his size to compensate somewhat on D, Lou uses his quickness, which seems to be improving after his injury. But the common problem is point of attack with our team. And the combo of poor perimeter D and a defensively inexperienced JV causes a lot of issues.

Knew I shouldn't have used the word 'anchor'. Crowd critiquing is brutally efficient. :-) Was thinking more along the lines of 'weak links'. Unlike offense, where 1 or 2 guys can carry a whole team, defense is much more difficult to make up for the limitations of a weak player. Good offensive teams will repeatedly attack the weak links and/or flaws in the scheme. Gone are the days of Bill Russell and Scottie Pippen being defensive 'erasers' - the new rule changes make that almost impossible. You need top-notch defensive schemes even more than top-notch athletes, IMO.

Charlotte is an interesting case. MKG is only 8th in minutes played. In reality, Gerald Henderson is the other guard who would get Kemba's covers, and he's an average-at-best athlete and considered an average-to-poor defender until Clifford took over. And even if MKG covers Kemba man, Kemba still has to guard somebody, which becomes an automatic mismatch at Kemba's size. Does MKG switch off Lebron to cover Kyrie? And then you've Al Jefferson in the front court, who is slow and never had a great defensive rep anywhere he's played.

Even look at the Raptors in Casey's first year. You had Kleiza, Bargs, Jose and Demar in your top 7 minutes played. On paper, that should be really bad defense. And yet that team had a better defensive rating & ranking than this year's team, featuring much better athletes, overall talent and depth.