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The Dichotomy of Raptor Fans

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  • nubreed000
    replied
    Deadallus wrote: View Post
    How about a 4th camp.

    The camp who is tired of watching management bumble along making foolish decisions year after year.
    The camp who is fed up with washed up, over-valued players collecting a final paycheck and mailing it in once they come North of the border.
    The camp who wants to vomit watching another player come up here make a name for himself, whine that he has no help, then jump ship for greener pastures.

    Give me back those teams of old that played their asses off whether they had the talent to compete or not. I have no problem watching the Raptors lose when they lay it all on the line, like they did against the Lakers in L.A. What I cannot tolerate is watching a team just go through the motions, hovering somewhere between potential good and incredibly underachieving. The team name should be changed to the Toronto Marshmallows. They are soft from the management, to the coaches to the players. This organization gets bullied around and dangles that carrot of hope in front of the fans noses year, after year, after year. Loyalty only goes so far. My patience is being tested.
    That's my camp

    Leave a comment:


  • nubreed000
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post

    awwww he's polite? Should fit right in with the rest of the team

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    When the pick is lost is a huge detail. Do you want to give up a draft pick at the beginning of a rebuild or on the up wing?

    I've never mentioned tanking once.

    Leave a comment:


  • insight_tor
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    If they make the playoffs they lose their draft pick to Miami due to a past trade.

    Make the playoffs = No first rounder
    Miss the playoffs = One first rounder

    By the way, right now they're sitting with the 13th worst record in the league and Chicago takes their playoff spot make that 12th. The 12th pick is better than no pick. As much as I'd like to have a team to cheer for in the playoffs I realize they'll be lucky to win a single game.



    Hasn't happened all season. What makes you think that's changing now? They look completely defeat to me.



    Time to accept that's not happening this year.



    It went wrong because they stopped trying. Stopped caring. Lacked leadership. Lacked accountability. Lacked toughness.
    Well, the draft pick is going to be lost anyway, this year or in near future. Anyway, this is a different matter, the bets that Collangelo did are starting to show the "dividends".

    Regarding the current lack of leadership/toughness/accountability - if you are so convinced that this is true, then why are you even talking about tanking? Tanking is when you could win the games but actually the players are just not giving their best efforts and lose games intentionally. Based on your assessment, Raptors may end up missing the playoff and get the draft pick not because tanking but because they are not capable of more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Dave wrote: View Post
    We're talking about a .500 team becoming a title contender. That is a huge amount of improvement. If you believe those players can engineer that, then fine, playoffs all the way. I don't see that type of potential though.
    Good point. If they make it it's not even like they're going back the following year to build on it. This off-season is probably going to be a rebuild and those four games of post season play will have little value compared to the potential of a 13-15 overall 1st rounder.

    Players taken 13-15 sorted by year:
    2008
    13. Brandon Rush
    14. Anthony Randolph
    15. Robin Lopez

    2007
    13. Julian Wright
    14. Al Thornton
    15. Rodney Stuckey

    2006
    13. Thabo Sefolasha
    14. Ronnie Brewer
    15. Cedric Simmons

    2005
    13. Antoine Wright
    14. Joey Graham
    15. Danny Granger

    2004
    13. Sebastian Telfair
    14. Kris Humphries
    15. Al Jefferson

    What the trend over the past five years, excluding this current draft class, seems to be that most years there is a star, very nice rotation player and a end of the rotation player to be had from 13-15. Three out of these five years a home run was hit with the 15th pick for whatever its worth.

    Leave a comment:


  • mo-sales
    replied
    Your camp needs to stay away from roof tops and bridges.

    Yea, its pretty impressive how spotty BC's record as President/GM has been. He's hit a lot of singles (Amir, Sonny, AP) , a couple doubles (Jack, Derozan, Bargs), has yet to hit a triple and wasted a lot of plate appearances swinging for the fences, but sadly striking out. He got caught stealing (Turk) and made a serious miscalculation promoting the third base coach to manager.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deadallus
    replied
    How about a 4th camp.

    The camp who is tired of watching management bumble along making foolish decisions year after year.
    The camp who is fed up with washed up, over-valued players collecting a final paycheck and mailing it in once they come North of the border.
    The camp who wants to vomit watching another player come up here make a name for himself, whine that he has no help, then jump ship for greener pastures.

    Give me back those teams of old that played their asses off whether they had the talent to compete or not. I have no problem watching the Raptors lose when they lay it all on the line, like they did against the Lakers in L.A. What I cannot tolerate is watching a team just go through the motions, hovering somewhere between potential good and incredibly underachieving. The team name should be changed to the Toronto Marshmallows. They are soft from the management, to the coaches to the players. This organization gets bullied around and dangles that carrot of hope in front of the fans noses year, after year, after year. Loyalty only goes so far. My patience is being tested.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave
    replied
    rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    Ok yeah because Bargs,Jack,Amir,Sonny and DD are such seasoned playoff veterans LOL. Especially when 4/5 are under contract with the team for a few more years.
    It depends on how much potential you think those five players have to improve.

    Outside of DeRozan, I'm not optimistic about their ability to improve by leaps and bounds.

    We're talking about a .500 team becoming a title contender. That is a huge amount of improvement. If you believe those players can engineer that, then fine, playoffs all the way. I don't see that type of potential though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    insight_tor wrote: View Post
    I don't understand how the second camp is following their brain. The best Raptors can do at this time is to fall to the 9th place which means an 15th or 16th draft pick . If they will make the playoffs, they will have an 17th or 18th draft pick. How is that a big difference?
    If they make the playoffs they lose their draft pick to Miami due to a past trade.

    Make the playoffs = No first rounder
    Miss the playoffs = One first rounder

    By the way, right now they're sitting with the 13th worst record in the league and Chicago takes their playoff spot make that 12th. The 12th pick is better than no pick. As much as I'd like to have a team to cheer for in the playoffs I realize they'll be lucky to win a single game.

    insight_tor wrote: View Post
    I just want to see Raptors giving their best on the floor.
    Hasn't happened all season. What makes you think that's changing now? They look completely defeat to me.

    insight_tor wrote: View Post
    Build a winning mentality should be the priority number one.
    Time to accept that's not happening this year.

    insight_tor wrote: View Post
    The current season went wrong not because Raptors doesn't have a great team, but something just didn't work mentally after the All-Star Games.
    It went wrong because they stopped trying. Stopped caring. Lacked leadership. Lacked accountability. Lacked toughness.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Apr 7th, 2010, 04:47 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • insight_tor
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Both are right in their own way. The first camp is following their heart and the second is following their brain.
    I don't understand how the second camp is following their brain. The best Raptors can do at this time is to fall to the 9th place which means an 15th or 16th draft pick . If they will make the playoffs, they will have an 17th or 18th draft pick. How is that a big difference?

    I just want to see Raptors giving their best on the floor. Build a winning mentality should be the priority number one. The current season went wrong not because Raptors doesn't have a great team, but something just didn't work mentally after the All-Star Games.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    "Monroe is a lock for the top 10, but he is still weighing his decision. He's also easily one of the most polite players I've seen," Andy Katz wrote on ESPN.com.
    RealGM.com

    Leave a comment:


  • mo-sales
    replied
    My best case scenario is miss play offs, take Greg Monroe, S and T Bosh to Houston for Brooks (they have lowry) and rebuild with a core of Brooks, Derozan, Weems, Amir, Monroe, Bargs.

    Fast paced, up and down team that prides itself in transition offense and defense. Won't win too many games right away, but it'll be a fun, hard working team that doesn't take nights off or give up 144 points. Try and ship Turk/Jose for EC's and take on reclamation projects and hope to get lucky.

    Leave a comment:


  • rdiaz101
    replied
    Dave wrote: View Post
    The goal should be to build a title contender. Whichever road better leads to title contention is the best road to take.

    Which I believe is the draft pick since this team is light on (1) trade assets (2) cap flexibility (3) young talent.

    If the Raptors had a lot of young talent which through patience and internal development could later grow and become a title contender, then playoff experience would be more very valuable ... but this is not the case.
    Ok yeah because Bargs,Jack,Amir,Sonny and DD are such seasoned playoff veterans LOL. Especially when 4/5 are under contract with the team for a few more years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave
    replied
    The goal should be to build a title contender. Whichever road better leads to title contention is the best road to take.

    Which I believe is the draft pick since this team is light on (1) trade assets (2) cap flexibility (3) young talent.

    If the Raptors had a lot of young talent which through patience and internal development could later grow and become a title contender, then playoff experience would be more very valuable ... but this is not the case.
    Last edited by Dave; Wed Apr 7th, 2010, 03:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • rdiaz101
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    What's worth more, four games of playoff experience or a 1st round lotto pick in a capped out rebuild off-season?
    Playoffs

    Leave a comment:

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