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  • #16
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    I love Amir to death, but he's wearing down before our eyes. It's not just the occassional rolled ankle anymore - the injuries have piled up, he's been in the League a long time, and his consistency is not going to get any better. The future forwards on the current roster are JV, PP, and JJ. I'd like to see these guys roles increasing already (more than they currently are) and a reduction in Amir's minutes to whatever it takes to keep the guy healthy. His minutes are down a bit to 26.7 but I'd like to see him cut back to 20 mpg and playing at 100% - he'd help the team more than playing his current minutes at 75%.
    Here's a fun fact: Amir has played fewer career minutes than LeBron did in his first four years to the age of 22. Amir was mostly a backup his first few years and didn't get to a 1000 minutes in a season until the age of 22.

    This is why I have asked whether there is a long-term cost to us:
    a) consistently being among the league leaders in setting screens
    b) playing Amir at the center against much larger guys

    It's also why I think we need to show Amir some loyalty. The guy has played through injury and done whatever was asked of him without complaint, and now people are saying it's a business and we should pay him half what we pay Greivis and Patman. Ha. We should have demanded he got surgery last offseason and now we are literally limping into the unknown for both the playoffs and his contract negotiations.
    It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

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    • #17
      Joey wrote: View Post
      LOL What bet did you lose?
      I bet that one of Fields or Hayes would be gone by trade deadline. I have to have this sig for at least until the playoffs.
      The name's Bond, James Bond.

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      • #18
        007 wrote: View Post
        I bet that one of Fields or Hayes would be gone by trade deadline. I have to have this sig for at least until the playoffs.
        Taking lessons from Scraptor I see
        "Stay steamy"

        - Kobe

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        • #19
          Scraptor wrote: View Post
          Here's a fun fact: Amir has played fewer career minutes than LeBron did in his first four years to the age of 22. Amir was mostly a backup his first few years and didn't get to a 1000 minutes in a season until the age of 22.

          This is why I have asked whether there is a long-term cost to us:
          a) consistently being among the league leaders in setting screens
          b) playing Amir at the center against much larger guys

          It's also why I think we need to show Amir some loyalty. The guy has played through injury and done whatever was asked of him without complaint, and now people are saying it's a business and we should pay him half what we pay Greivis and Patman. Ha. We should have demanded he got surgery last offseason and now we are literally limping into the unknown for both the playoffs and his contract negotiations.
          Haha, I also looked it up after writing that and found his 12653 career minutes were not even enough to crack the top 100 among active players (Garnett's #1 at 49764!!!). I also wonder if it's not so much the total minutes as the number of minutes he's been allowed to play while injured. Who knows if he just has glass ankles and only ever had 10000 healthy minutes in his body, or if he could have lengthened his career by managing his health better. It's definitely always partly on the team when they allow guys to play injured.

          He has also always been an undersized 4/5 banging against bigger bodies. Having jumped into the league as a pretty raw HS kid, he didn't get any minutes the first few years but still had to practice against 'Sheed and Big Ben every single day. That would count for something as well.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • #20
            Scraptor wrote: View Post
            Here's a fun fact: Amir has played fewer career minutes than LeBron did in his first four years to the age of 22. Amir was mostly a backup his first few years and didn't get to a 1000 minutes in a season until the age of 22.

            This is why I have asked whether there is a long-term cost to us:
            a) consistently being among the league leaders in setting screens
            b) playing Amir at the center against much larger guys

            It's also why I think we need to show Amir some loyalty. The guy has played through injury and done whatever was asked of him without complaint, and now people are saying it's a business and we should pay him half what we pay Greivis and Patman. Ha. We should have demanded he got surgery last offseason and now we are literally limping into the unknown for both the playoffs and his contract negotiations.
            Loyalty's fine...but they should still look to improve roster first and foremost, even if that means cutting ties.

            I do agree that if they bring him back, it shouldn't, and won't, be on a low-ball offer. People who think Amir will settle for 3-5M per year are clueless. He may be loyal, but he'll get a better offer than that even with his ankle concerns. But I wouldn't give him more than 2-3 years. And I do think that if they bring him back again, they basically should do what you say and demand he get surgery. It may not fix his problems, but rest/rehab clearly won't.

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            • #21
              Scraptor wrote: View Post
              Here's a fun fact: Amir has played fewer career minutes than LeBron did in his first four years to the age of 22. Amir was mostly a backup his first few years and didn't get to a 1000 minutes in a season until the age of 22.

              This is why I have asked whether there is a long-term cost to us:
              a) consistently being among the league leaders in setting screens
              b) playing Amir at the center against much larger guys

              It's also why I think we need to show Amir some loyalty. The guy has played through injury and done whatever was asked of him without complaint, and now people are saying it's a business and we should pay him half what we pay Greivis and Patman. Ha. We should have demanded he got surgery last offseason and now we are literally limping into the unknown for both the playoffs and his contract negotiations.
              So we should overpay an aging chronically injured player because he's nice and likes the city? It doesn't make any sense to pay a guy based on loyalty in the NBA. There is a salary cap and you can only have 15 guys on the roster. LAL was loyal to Kobe and now they're hamstrung by his ridiculous contract. I'd much prefer we show loyalty to Amir by hiring him on as a coach or front office guy when his career is over. Our loyalty to Amir shouldn't come at the expense of wins and getting better players.

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              • #22
                hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                Taking lessons from Scraptor I see
                Well, this bet was made before the season started, so before Scraptor's.
                The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                • #23
                  The team should rest Amir for the Mavs game. It might be waving the white flag if PP is still out but probably the best for the longer term of the season.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Primer wrote: View Post
                    So we should overpay an aging chronically injured player because he's nice and likes the city? It doesn't make any sense to pay a guy based on loyalty in the NBA. There is a salary cap and you can only have 15 guys on the roster. LAL was loyal to Kobe and now they're hamstrung by his ridiculous contract. I'd much prefer we show loyalty to Amir by hiring him on as a coach or front office guy when his career is over. Our loyalty to Amir shouldn't come at the expense of wins and getting better players.
                    Where did I say we should overpay him? I'm not saying we should give him $25 million a year like Kobe.

                    I just think paying him half what we pay a player who is frankly less useful even when fully healthy (Greivis) is a flat out insult given all he has done for our team. NOT because he is nice and likes the city. But because he has played hurt and played center and has NEVER ONCE complained about it, when he could have instead been disruptive and hurt our locker room.

                    All this talk of chemistry under Masai... well there are things like goodwill that should have some sort of value, otherwise you'll erode that goodwill too until you're just another horse trader.
                    It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                      Lowry resigned mainly based on the condition that he will be the leader of this team. Add that to his all-star selection and Lowry hero ball is going to be a recurring theme from now on.
                      If he would just distribute a little more his shot selection could improve due to getting better looks from more ball movement.

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                      • #26
                        Scraptor wrote: View Post
                        Where did I say we should overpay him? I'm not saying we should give him $25 million a year like Kobe.

                        I just think paying him half what we pay a player who is frankly less useful even when fully healthy (Greivis) is a flat out insult given all he has done for our team. NOT because he is nice and likes the city. But because he has played hurt and played center and has NEVER ONCE complained about it, when he could have instead been disruptive and hurt our locker room.

                        All this talk of chemistry under Masai... well there are things like goodwill that should have some sort of value, otherwise you'll erode that goodwill too until you're just another horse trader.
                        Has anyone complained about their role on the team? Was Ross or DD up in arms about being forced to play SF when they're too small for the position? Was GV bitching about being forced to play SG? Does Hanbrough complain about being forced to play C? Casey uses just about everyone is spots they don't excel/belong in. I don't see any difference in the way Amir has handled it relative to the rest of the team. I haven't read any reports of anyone being disruptive in the locker room. I'm pretty sure Amir plays through injuries because he's always injured and would never play if he didn't. He had all offseason to get healthy and he's still the same constantly injured guy. I don't think he deserves special props or a loyalty contract for that.

                        Also, GV is a bad comparison when it comes to contracts, different position and different demand around the league. Why not look at the other guy we just signed who plays the exact same position as Amir, Patrick Patterson. Patterson only makes $6M-$7M per year, and I don't see how Amir deserves more than PPat.

                        I'll agree with you that we're overpaying GV, mainly because he's not playing very well, but overpaying GV doesn't mean we should overpay Amir because he's better than GV.

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                        • #27
                          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          Or used the hideous joke font that's going around these days...
                          Pink is a beautiful colour.

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                          • #28
                            Primer wrote: View Post
                            Has anyone complained about their role on the team? Was Ross or DD up in arms about being forced to play SF when they're too small for the position? Was GV bitching about being forced to play SG? Does Hanbrough complain about being forced to play C? Casey uses just about everyone is spots they don't excel/belong in. I don't see any difference in the way Amir has handled it relative to the rest of the team. I haven't read any reports of anyone being disruptive in the locker room. I'm pretty sure Amir plays through injuries because he's always injured and would never play if he didn't. He had all offseason to get healthy and he's still the same constantly injured guy. I don't think he deserves special props or a loyalty contract for that.

                            Also, GV is a bad comparison when it comes to contracts, different position and different demand around the league. Why not look at the other guy we just signed who plays the exact same position as Amir, Patrick Patterson. Patterson only makes $6M-$7M per year, and I don't see how Amir deserves more than PPat.

                            I'll agree with you that we're overpaying GV, mainly because he's not playing very well, but overpaying GV doesn't mean we should overpay Amir because he's better than GV.
                            There is a big difference between being asked to play 300 pound centers in the paint and being asked to play SG or SF. Chris Bosh complained about it, as have plenty of other PFs. You take a lot of abuse down there.

                            And again, I don't think I've ever said Amir should get more than Patterson. I said paying him half what we pay Greivis is an insult. Paying him half of Patman is less insulting but still not fair given that Amir still has the better TS%, REB%, and BLK% despite his injuries. I am totally fine with $6-$7mm a year for Amir, though the market this summer may get crazy and who knows what some desperate team will do.
                            It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              007 wrote: View Post
                              He's right.

                              We need 2Pat to start, JV needs steady minutes, and Casey needs to fucking call out all our guards.
                              Amir is tired and is hurt ... He needs to go to bench and we need to start 2Pat now that JJ is starting. This will give us a better 3 pointer option in the starting line up, plus a much more refreshed Amir Johnson for play offs.

                              As far as JV goes, he is gassed at the end of the game. We needed and still need a solid back up C to get some minutes off JV at the being of the games so JV can play more at the end.

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                              • #30
                                Zainab wrote: View Post
                                Pink is a beautiful colour.
                                ...When it's not used for text on a white background...

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