Raptors Collapse Continues....

[yabadabayolo]

East is weak.

Yes... That only further helps my point. Some of you are really overrating the roster of this team

[Scraptor]

He had the means, the assets, the tools to make his changes but choose in purpose to stay with this group.

We have everything short of actual emails and recorded phone conversations proving that Lowry was on his way to New York. In other words, this team was being torn apart. If I was running this site, disregarding this fact would be ban-worthy, but hey, I'm not.

Yes, but almost tearing the team apart is not the same thing as actually tearing the team apart.

The fact is that Masai chose to stay with the current group. You don't get points for what you almost did.

McRealistic made a valid comment that is hardly ban-worthy.

[Scraptor]

And let me say further... I'm not anti-Masai and I'm fine with the road we took. Masai has pulled off some major heists and hopefully we see more of his plan come into play this summer.

I just think there is little room for healthy skeptical debate when the prevailing attitude is to say it's ban-worthy to question what Masai has done.

[DDelight]

I mean how can we question Masai? Who expected us to be 37-20 right now and in 2nd place. I can't fault Masai for wanting to see things through. We had no real cap space this summer and getting Lou and JJ were actually smart and cheap moves in my opinion.

I think Masai wants to see how this slightly improved group does in the playoffs. It's not unrealistic to think the changes he did to improve our bench could get us into the 2nd round. And we still have a chance of that. So why discuss what moves Masai should have done up to this point?

Now, if we get eliminated first round again and next training camp we have the same roster, my eyebrows will be raised at that point.

[007]

I don't think we're keeping the same roster for next year. Moves will be made.

[Bendit]

"Collapse"????

Hyperbole much?

Only requirement is an attitudinal & coaching reset.

The Raptors had the talent start of the year....that doesnt just disappear. We knew it was not a champ. team. They/some just lost their way.

Time for Masai to have little talk with DC and the team.

[tDotted]

Yes... That only further helps my point. Some of you are really overrating the roster of this team

If the East is weak (like you say) why is it out of the question to assume this healthy roster isn't capable of making the Conference Finals?

[JimiCliff]

And let me say further... I'm not anti-Masai and I'm fine with the road we took. Masai has pulled off some major heists and hopefully we see more of his plan come into play this summer.

I just think there is little room for healthy skeptical debate when the prevailing attitude is to say it's ban-worthy to question what Masai has done.

When I said ban-worthy (which was tongue in cheek anyways), I was referring to posters who still deny that Lowry was almost a Knick

Of course you can question what he's done

[Bendit]

When I said ban-worthy (which was tongue in cheek anyways), I was referring to posters who still deny that Lowry was almost a Knick

Of course you can question what he's done

I posted an espn piece on Lowry just before the asg where Lowry himself confirms that he was packed up ready for NY. Cant remember which thread it was but I am sure still available on espn. Masai himself on multiple occasions has spoken about the lucky happenstance of that year.

[Other Scott]

If the East is weak (like you say) why is it out of the question to assume this healthy roster isn't capable of making the Conference Finals?

It is. And it still might do so.

[mcHAPPY]

I just don't understand how BC gets all the blame when we're losing and Masai gets all the credit when we're winning. BC's been gone almost two years!

Like I've said before, this willingness to put 100% of the blame on BC renders Masai completely infallible. If Masai really found the foundation so disgusting he could have made changes at any time. Yet he chose--and has been repeatedly lauded for--continuity.

You can't have it both ways.

I'm not understanding the comments directed at me here.

I am giving BC an eenie weenie bit of credit and Masai the rest. Masai's credit to this point is due to luck...which I'm sure he'll take as it is often better to be lucky than good.

BCs failure is that he refused to acknowledge his largest mistake (Bargnani) and doubled down on a shaky foundation acquiring Gay (which I was in favour of but his talents were never maximized by the style of play). BCs failure was acknowledged for all when he was fired and the front office was gutted. Who is blaming Colangelo right now? I'm not.

Masai is playing the hand he was dealt. You think rationally for a moment on the posts in these forums from the so called true fans and the anti-tank brigade. Then consider the number of band wagoners who started following once raps became a playoff team last year. What backlash would Masai have faced if he believed this team was doomed and traded pieces away at the trade deadline last year, over the summer, or at the trade deadline this year? Philly is awful and they traded away a flawed player in the name of the future asset and look at the criticism they are facing....imagine a team sitting on 36 wins at allstar break! The continuity rhetoric is from the media and lapped up by the "true" fans.

If this team falters in the first round again and no changes are made, don't you worry, I'll be the first one to call out Masai.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I'm not understanding the comments directed at me here.

I am giving BC an eenie weenie bit of credit and Masai the rest. Masai's credit to this point is due to luck...which I'm sure he'll take as it is often better to be lucky than good.

BCs failure is that he refused to acknowledge his largest mistake (Bargnani) and doubled down on a shaky foundation acquiring Gay (which I was in favour of but his talents were never maximized by the style of play). BCs failure was acknowledged for all when he was fired and the front office was gutted. Who is blaming Colangelo right now? I'm not.

Masai is playing the hand he was dealt. You think rationally for a moment on the posts in these forums from the so called true fans and the anti-tank brigade. Then consider the number of band wagoners who started following once raps became a playoff team last year. What backlash would Masai have faced if he believed this team was doomed and traded pieces away at the trade deadline last year, over the summer, or at the trade deadline this year? Philly is awful and they traded away a flawed player in the name of the future asset and look at the criticism they are facing....imagine a team sitting on 36 wins at allstar break! The continuity rhetoric is from the media and lapped up by the "true" fans.

If this team falters in the first round again and no changes are made, don't you worry, I'll be the first one to call out Masai.

And MU has been the first one to say that he is opposed to going 'all in' by mortgaging the future, even though the EC looks so gettable this season. MU has also reiterated the fact that this season is an evaluation year several times, since it's an extended look at the individual players, collective roster (ie: chemistry/fit) and coaching staff that achieved so much unexpected success last season.

If you compare the Raptors' record to start the season VS their current record, there has definitely been a "collapse" in terms of relative winning %. I don't think it was unexpected, since maintaining the winning % they had out of the gate was never thought to be probable.

To me, the style of play is far more worrisome than the declining winning %, regardless of whether they're winning or losing. MU traded away Gay because he didn't like the style of play that the team was employing (yes, they were losing more than they were winning), so I have a hard time believing that he can look at the way they're playing this year (ie: hero ball) and be satisfied, even with the wins.

MU acknowledges that the EC is weak and doesn't like hero-ball. He's a much smarter basketball mind than any of us, so I'm really not concerned at this point - but that's due to my expectation that this team will look significantly different two years from now (if not by next season).

[mcHAPPY]

And MU has been the first one to say that he is opposed to going 'all in' by mortgaging the future, even though the EC looks so gettable this season. MU has also reiterated the fact that this season is an evaluation year several times, since it's an extended look at the individual players, collective roster (ie: chemistry/fit) and coaching staff that achieved so much unexpected success last season.

If you compare the Raptors' record to start the season VS their current record, there has definitely been a "collapse" in terms of relative winning %. I don't think it was unexpected, since maintaining the winning % they had out of the gate was never thought to be probable.

To me, the style of play is far more worrisome than the declining winning %, regardless of whether they're winning or losing. MU traded away Gay because he didn't like the style of play that the team was employing (yes, they were losing more than they were winning), so I have a hard time believing that he can look at the way they're playing this year (ie: hero ball) and be satisfied, even with the wins.

MU acknowledges that the EC is weak and doesn't like hero-ball. He's a much smarter basketball mind than any of us, so I'm really not concerned at this point - but that's due to my expectation that this team will look significantly different two years from now (if not by next season).

The bold is interesting.

So many fans laid blame on Bargnani for good reason and just cause.
Then fans laid blame on Gay and he has subsequently become a scape goat.
But we're seeing the same things with DeRozan and now Lowry.

What is the one constant throughout all of this?

[KeonClark]

The bold is interesting.

So many fans laid blame on Bargnani for good reason and just cause.
Then fans laid blame on Gay and he has subsequently become a scape goat.
But we're seeing the same things with DeRozan and now Lowry.

What is the one constant throughout all of this?

[rightsideup]

I am concerned about our losses even though there are some excuses such as 4 games in five nights but we are giving up leads and are a fairly deep team without people being strung out with excess minutes. It is time for Masai to have a least a heart to heart with the team. He has committed to this group for this season. He must speak his mind although if he does it will not be public possibly.