Rudy Gay's stats with Casey & w/out

[raptors999]

I like to think a gv, batman, Lou, bebe is a better haul for rudy than ed Davis and tayshaun prince and Austin daye...

Salaries also have to be considered. Memphis reduced salary but replaced Gay with Prince and then added Jeff Green. Kings unloaded 2 contracts anbd 2RFA for a starting SF. Raptors ended up with 2Pats, GV and Lou + Bebe but had to carry Salmons and Hayes and none are starters. Both of the other teams have starting SF and reduced dead contracts. It wasn't a slam dunk trade for the Raptors.

[raptors999]

My hump may be different from your hump. I believe Fergie explained this.

A first round win might be considered a hump but reaching the WCF is the bigger achievement. Losing Gay to injury wasn't the hump but forcing Hollins to use Conley, Zbo and Gasol by dumping Gay led to the team today. The year after the first "hump" was a first round exit

[KeonClark]

A first round win might be considered a hump but reaching the WCF is the bigger achievement. Losing Gay to injury wasn't the hump but forcing Hollins to use Conley, Zbo and Gasol by dumping Gay led to the team today. The year after the first "hump" was a first round exit

Either way, the point. Is we've never seen concrete evidence that a team is better with rudy gay than without. In fact we've seen a lot of evidence going the other way. When his career is over, he may be best remembered by the "addition by subtraction" ways that he affected teams. That's pretty sad if ya ask me.

[raptors999]

Either way, the point. Is we've never seen concrete evidence that a team is better with rudy gay than without. In fact we've seen a lot of evidence going the other way. When his career is over, he may be best remembered by the "addition by subtraction" ways that he affected teams. That's pretty sad if ya ask me.

I didn't like Gay, Demar does the same job for less money and previously with less ball. Just saying Casey forced Toronto to be low ball sellers

[ezz_bee]

I didn't like Gay, Demar does the same job for less money and previously with less ball. Just saying Casey forced Toronto to be low ball sellers

I agree with the first bold
I'm not sure I agree with the second one

I my opinion the problem came from duplication of skills. I think that had we traded Demar instead of Rudy (which I would have preferred if we could have gotten more than the gay trade) we would have had a similar turnaround. Maybe better, maybe worse.

The problem with Demar and Rudy on the court together is that neither one is great at spacing the floor (not lights out shooters from three) OR great off ball cutters (like JJ or even Fields). I'm sure there's a coach out there that could have made a rudy/demar based line up work.

Also, it's not like Gay is a potential all star anymore. IF his value has increased since his time in Toronto it hasn't increased that much. Also, it's not like Sacramento is moving mountains with him as their second banana.

I think if anyone drove Gay's value down it was Coangelo, who (other than the Garbo years) was unable to bring a group of guys together who skills complemented each other and made up for the weaknesses of their teammates.

I also think it's a stretch to blame Bargs on Casey as well. SMitch and Coangelo fought over Barg's playing time as well, so I don't think it's a stretch to presume the "hell or high water" was a reflection of Coangelo's opinion. Coangelo was the one who kept Barg's on the team for at least 2 years too long.

I think if we can get a better coach in the off season i'm all for it, but to say that Casey is "killing" the value of our players is too much. Especially when the "improvement" of the other players is on shitty teams with a greatly reduced role. Maybe they are doing well because they have roles they are better suited to. Their roles come for the GM not the coach.

[MixxAOR]

DJ Augustine looked like shit too but under Thibs became legit back up point guard

[SamMitchells]

Are you guys down to have a meet up when Casey gets fired? We can have a like a BBQ at any of these public parks.. Brews, females, celebrating Casey's departure .. Would be so fun
Lets make it happen

[raptors999]

I agree with the first bold
I'm not sure I agree with the second one

I my opinion the problem came from duplication of skills. I think that had we traded Demar instead of Rudy (which I would have preferred if we could have gotten more than the gay trade) we would have had a similar turnaround. Maybe better, maybe worse.

The problem with Demar and Rudy on the court together is that neither one is great at spacing the floor (not lights out shooters from three) OR great off ball cutters (like JJ or even Fields). I'm sure there's a coach out there that could have made a rudy/demar based line up work.

Also, it's not like Gay is a potential all star anymore. IF his value has increased since his time in Toronto it hasn't increased that much. Also, it's not like Sacramento is moving mountains with him as their second banana.

I think if anyone drove Gay's value down it was Coangelo, who (other than the Garbo years) was unable to bring a group of guys together who skills complemented each other and made up for the weaknesses of their teammates.

I also think it's a stretch to blame Bargs on Casey as well. SMitch and Coangelo fought over Barg's playing time as well, so I don't think it's a stretch to presume the "hell or high water" was a reflection of Coangelo's opinion. Coangelo was the one who kept Barg's on the team for at least 2 years too long.

I think if we can get a better coach in the off season i'm all for it, but to say that Casey is "killing" the value of our players is too much. Especially when the "improvement" of the other players is on shitty teams with a greatly reduced role. Maybe they are doing well because they have roles they are better suited to. Their roles come for the GM not the coach.

Bargs, Gay, Augustin, Anderson, all improved after leaving and reducing their role is the job of the coach. Salmons is stapled to the bench and that's where he is most valuable providing spot minutes. Using 2Pats at C isn't helping anyone

[KHD]

The sheer drop-off of efficiency that occurs when people step into Casey's "system" is just ridiculous. Further fuel for the #FireCasey fire.

[golden]

Lets just let the bench run the team. Between hayes and fields that might not be such a bad thing anyways...

Lowry and Chuck ARE running the team, IMO. Every time you see Lowry on the bench, he's consulting with Chuck. And then Chuck is sometimes in the huddle in timeouts. Lowry played with Chuck in Houston, so he trusts him.

I guess when Lowry gets out there he's still thinking... chuck... chuck... chuck...

[Day One]

things I would like to hear Casey say

1) you take a shot like that again and you be sitting on the bench the rest of the game

2) if you catch the ball and proceed to hold onto it with out either -
a) pump fake
b) jab step
c) dribble in a forward motion ( not side to side )
you will be sitting on the bench the rest of the game

3) The best defense is played on offense for the continuous movement of the ball allows for the opponent to expel the most energy.

4) we must utilize the time giving in the shot clock on any play that is set in the half court

5) lets run ( any set play ) inbound, in game, full court press, half court press, any play set where there is not a number one option yet rather rules and continuous motion of the ball, maybe the flex.

In all honesty he is a really bad coach, people using the argument about the teams record need to understand that if you replaced Casey with any other coach in the League we would not have a worse record rather the same or better. I cant think of a single game in his tenure here that he had done something to win us a game. I dont care if he is a good person, I cant even watch games anymore becasue the mistakes he makes are so obvious it makes me lose my shit.

[mjt20mik]

Casey doesn't know how to run an effective and efficient offense. We need to get a better coach.

[Uncle_Si]

Casey doesn't know how to run an effective and efficient offense. We need to get a better coach.

This offense is still a top 10 offense. It's the defence that's plummeted.

[Mindlessness]

This offense is still a top 10 offense. It's the defence that's plummeted.

Both are plummeting. Probably a result of not being able to "hit shots we usually hit".

[yabadabayolo]

Both are plummeting. Probably a result of not being able to "hit shots we usually hit".

Nope. Still a top 3 offence. It's the defence that sucks.