What happened to our defence from last year to this year ?

[DDelight]

I'm lost in what the argument is now. Are we defending Casey's defense?

It's clear his defense doesn't work for our personnel. But does that mean Casey should go or does that mean new players are needed that better suit Casey's system.

I remember someone on this forum saying they read an article about Masai saying he likes to choose the players based on the coach and his style. If that's the case, then maybe its more likely Casey stays.

[yabadabayolo]

Funny you say that, because our D was much better when JJ started and played decent minutes. It's not an individual thing, but it still depends on the coming together of individuals, and so the better the defensive players you have the better the collective result is likely to be.

Yea but it didn't take us from 25th to 5th. Smaller improvement. But it was an improvement I'll give you that. JJ should play more

[Mindlessness]

Yes but did Carlisle give him credit for the defence in each of those three years ?

I was under the impression he just said that during the championship year

Then you shouldn't assume

[yabadabayolo]

I'm lost in what the argument is now. Are we defending Casey's defense?

It's clear his defense doesn't work for our personnel. But does that mean Casey should go or does that mean new players are needed that better suit Casey's system.

I remember someone on this forum saying they read an article about Masai saying he likes to choose the players based on the coach and his style. If that's the case, then maybe its more likely Casey stays.

I'm arguing with people on weather he's a defensive coach or not. (I'm saying he is)

And he did say that but he also said he wants to leave his mark on the team. No one truly knows what he's gonna do lol

[white men can't jump]

But but that specific year, Carlisle literally gave him all the credit for it. Even though he's 'much better than him'

But don't count it and he still had a good defence 3 out of the 5 years he's head coached. He's a defensive coach, don't know why your arguing with me over that

Because he's been a coach or assistant coach on below average defensive teams quite frequently, about as much as he has on decent defensive teams.

I'm arguing because the only evidence anyone can point to is a single season where a class act gave him lots of credit for their D.

We know Casey only cares about D, but that in itself doesn't make him a good defensive coach. We know he barely coaches O (or not at all). But considering he supposedly is a defensive coach and puts all his thought/energy to that end, the results are pretty unspectacular, especially compared to better defensive coaches.

[yabadabayolo]

Then you shouldn't assume

I didn't, Carlyle gave him credit for the defence to beat Miami. Not his entire tenure there big guy

[yabadabayolo]

Because he's been a coach or assistant coach on below average defensive teams quite frequently, about as much as he has on decent defensive teams.

I'm arguing because the only evidence anyone can point to is a single season where a class act gave him lots of credit for their D.

We know Casey only cares about D, but that in itself doesn't make him a good defensive coach. We know he barely coaches O (or not at all). But considering he supposedly is a defensive coach and puts all his thought/energy to that end, the results are pretty unspectacular, especially compared to better defensive coaches.

Alright agree to disagree then lol. Neither of us are gunna budge hehe.

I thot being a good defensive coach meant mainly caring about defence. But I guess you don't. Whatever

[white men can't jump]

Yea but it didn't take us from 25th to 5th. Smaller improvement. But it was an improvement I'll give you that. JJ should play more

Think of it also relative to poor players getting minutes instead, like Greivis or Lou. Or guys not being held accountable at that end (*cough* DeMar *cough* Lowry) and still getting big minutes.

He is supposedly a defensive coach, but so far as I can tell the two skills he values the most are ballhandling and shooting.

[white men can't jump]

Alright agree to disagree then lol. Neither of us are gunna budge hehe.

I thot being a good defensive coach meant mainly caring about defence. But I guess you don't. Whatever

It's not about caring, it's about execution and results in that area.

A parent can care about their child, and they still end up a crackwhore teenage mom if the parent doesn't you know, teach, discipline, be a good role model, etc.

*So call him a defensive coach if you want just because he cares, but to me you can only accurately sport that label if you have the track record to back it up.

[yabadabayolo]

It's not about caring, it's about execution and results in that area.

A parent can care about their child, and they still end up a crackwhore teenage mom if the parent doesn't you know, teach, discipline, be a good role model, etc.

*So call him a defensive coach if you want just because he cares, but to me you can only accurately sport that label if you have the track record to back it up.

Yeah okay but at the same time you could be an amazing parent but your child could become friends with a little shit and become just like them. Leading to them becoming a crack whore teenage mom.

Relating that to basketball, when your best players become little shits (DD & KL) it rubs off on the rest of your team and they all become little shits

[white men can't jump]

Yeah okay but at the same time you could be an amazing parent but your child could become friends with a little shit and become just like them. Leading to them becoming a crack whore teenage mom.

Relating that to basketball, when your best players become little shits (DD & KL) it rubs off on the rest of your team and they all become little shits

I don't know if you're that amazing a parent if your child can make that shit choice. Blame goes on both the kid and the parent.

How do you keep them from becoming little shits? What are you doing that's enabling that behaviour?

*Maybe not the best analogy, but just used it to point out how much it goes beyond simply 'caring'.

[yabadabayolo]

I don't know if you're that amazing a parent if your child can make that shit choice. Blame goes on both the kid and the parent.

How do you keep them from becoming little shits? What are you doing that's enabling that behaviour?

It is on both the parent and the kid, not just the parent. Maybe the child was paired up with this little shit at school by the coach and the little shit just completely rubbed off in your kid while they're at school or while working on homework at home. Many factors. - Similarity it's not just on the coach, it's also on the players.

And as a parent or coach, you can only preach so they don't become little shits. But once they turn the corner of becoming shits, most of the time it's too late.

[white men can't jump]

It is on both the parent and the kid, not just the parent. Maybe the child was paired up with this little shit at school by the coach and the little shit just completely rubbed off in your kid while they're at school or while working on homework at home. Many factors. - Similarity it's not just on the coach, it's also on the players.

And as a parent or coach, you can only preach so they don't become little shits. But once they turn the corner of becoming shits, most of the time it's too late.

But regardless of the exact nuances, if the kid becomes a little shit, no one is going to rave about what a good parent(s) he had just because they cared.

It's obviously a complex issue, but Casey's track record points to him not doing much of anything to merit the label of defsnive coach beyond 'caring' about D, and that one year as an assistant in Dallas.

[golden]

You can't judge Casey off his teams defensive numbers when he was an ASSISTANT coach. That's like blaming our shit defence on sterner.

I think the reason mcrealistic says Casey has a proven record as a defensive coach is because Carlyle literally said the defence was all Casey's idea and he implemented it. So if you think about it, it kinda means his defensive system is a championship level system. Thus mcrealistics claims.

Very true. It's a bit of a strawman to give Casey or any assistant coach too much credit for team performance. The single most important things any coach does in any game is decide how many minutes and when a guy plays. That was all Carlisle, not Casey.

And speaking of Rick Carlisle, of course he's going to pump up his own assistants. Like Doc Rivers did for Thibs, or PJax for Shaw, etc...

[DanH]

Yea but it didn't take us from 25th to 5th. Smaller improvement. But it was an improvement I'll give you that. JJ should play more

With JJ on the court, the team's defensive rating has been 101.3. Without him, 106.2.

Those would rank 10th and 25th, so close!

Over the past 15 games, the numbers are more like 98.6 and 108.8.

Those would rank 4th and 29th.

So I don't know that your 25th to 5th is really that far off.