GAME #27 - TORONTO RAPTORS vs. DENVER NUGGETS - WED, DEC 20, 2023 - 7:30 P.M

[Kagemusha]

Yes it is, but somehow Darko has us in the running to be bottom 6.

What
a
mess

[Primer]

Also, isn't this supposedly a week draft? Probably best if we lose the pick this year rather than later

Yes it is, but somehow Darko has us in the running to be bottom 6.

[Quirk]

Also, isn't this supposedly a week draft? Probably best if we lose the pick this year rather than later

[golden]

Even if we are bottom 6 in record we are more likely to lose the pick than keep it.

The 6th worst team has a 45.8% chance at a top 6 pick. If we get into the 5th worst spot, then we have a 60% chance of keeping it, still hardly a given. Really need a bottom 4 spot to say it is truly likely to keep the pick (80%).

At no point this season will it be "likely" we keep that pick.

So I guess that means we’ll end up coughing up the best possible pick the Spurs could hope for this year… 7th.

[planetmars]

It's starting to look likely we keep our pick. Won't take much for Utah and Memphis to pass us in the standings and then we're bottom 6.

Masai needs to put everyone not named Scottie on the table. Blow it up. Then at least we could be losing on purpose and selling hope. We're sure as hell not selling wins.

That's funny considering I believe it was you that scoffed at my idea we could keep that pick if we lost Fred (and Pascal) and that it was important to keep that pick to hold on to the one in 2025 as it is perceived to be a better draft.

It's really hard to say what will happen. The lottery odds are different and its easy for teams to move back let alone forward in the draft. Yet we've been really healthy outside of Koloko, Otto and Precious for a week or so. If we start getting hurt that will likely make us worse too. So something to keep on eye on there (outside of trades of course).

Either way, I'm still on board for extending Pascal before the 26th/27th though (ie, 6 months before the draft), or worse case before Jan 1 so he's available in free agency. As I do think the offers will be sh!t before the deadline for him too unless he's on a longer term deal. And you can already kiss that super max good bye. He won't make all-nba. So no reason for him to wait to get extended. He can make more from us through an extension. We can then trade him in the summer and get some real assets back. I don't think Pascal being in the line up is helping or hurting us (depending on if you are team tank or not). as we still suck with him and could even get better in the short term without him depending on who you get back (ie, create better depth).

Dennis, Yak, Gary, Chris, etc can all be traded. I'd prefer to hold on to OG unless his value is sky high for some reason, despite being an expiring contract too.

[Kagemusha]

I mean the roster is fine as is and Darko could just coach it right. I'm just saying it's possible he'd end up playing the right rotation once this current one is no longer available to him.

The roster is ' fine as is' ?

[DanH]

I do agree that we could actually be a better team post trades. If Darko has a correctly built roster he wouldn't be able to run all these shitty lineups you hate. That's what I would be rooting for. We look better post trade and everyone is excited for the future.

I mean the roster is fine as is and Darko could just coach it right. I'm just saying it's possible he'd end up playing the right rotation once this current one is no longer available to him.

[Primer]

Well, no worries, if we keep it together, odds are Darko eventually pulls his head out of his rear end and plays a rotation that makes a single modicum of sense, and we end up handing over a late lotto pick as expected. Heck, depending on how well the Scottie leap holds (and if we keep OG after trading Pascal), could end up handing over a similar pick even if we trade Pascal if there's some decent current talent coming back along with those picks and it forces Darko into a more sane rotation.

It's very early to start looking at the record and thinking we will have a high pick to keep/lose. A few wins completely changes the standings at this point of the year. Have a much better sense as we approach the deadline and there is some separation in records.

I do agree that we could actually be a better team post trades. If Darko has a correctly built roster he wouldn't be able to run all these shitty lineups you hate. That's what I would be rooting for. We look better post trade and everyone is excited for the future.

[DanH]

45.8% is pretty damn close to a coin flip. That's likely enough, but I concede on the semantics. We're slightly more likely to give the Spurs the 7th pick. I don't hate the Jak trade but he's not worth the 7th pick in any draft. The only thing that will make it hurt less is if we blow it up and get some draft picks and young guys and start the ernest rebuild around Scottie. I would be very excited for that.

Well, no worries, if we keep it together, odds are Darko eventually pulls his head out of his rear end and plays a rotation that makes a single modicum of sense, and we end up handing over a late lotto pick as expected. Heck, depending on how well the Scottie leap holds (and if we keep OG after trading Pascal), could end up handing over a similar pick even if we trade Pascal if there's some decent current talent coming back along with those picks and it forces Darko into a more sane rotation.

It's very early to start looking at the record and thinking we will have a high pick to keep/lose. A few wins completely changes the standings at this point of the year. Have a much better sense as we approach the deadline and there is some separation in records.

[Primer]

Even if we are bottom 6 in record we are more likely to lose the pick than keep it.

The 6th worst team has a 45.8% chance at a top 6 pick. If we get into the 5th worst spot, then we have a 60% chance of keeping it, still hardly a given. Really need a bottom 4 spot to say it is truly likely to keep the pick (80%).

At no point this season will it be "likely" we keep that pick.

45.8% is pretty damn close to a coin flip. That's likely enough, but I concede on the semantics. We're slightly more likely to give the Spurs the 7th pick. I don't hate the Jak trade but he's not worth the 7th pick in any draft. The only thing that will make it hurt less is if we blow it up and get some draft picks and young guys and start the ernest rebuild around Scottie. I would be very excited for that.

[DanH]

It's starting to look likely we keep our pick. Won't take much for Utah and Memphis to pass us in the standings and then we're bottom 6.

Masai needs to put everyone not named Scottie on the table. Blow it up. Then at least we could be losing on purpose and selling hope. We're sure as hell not selling wins.

Even if we are bottom 6 in record we are more likely to lose the pick than keep it.

The 6th worst team has a 45.8% chance at a top 6 pick. If we get into the 5th worst spot, then we have a 60% chance of keeping it, still hardly a given. Really need a bottom 4 spot to say it is truly likely to keep the pick (80%).

At no point this season will it be "likely" we keep that pick.

[Primer]

Same old story.. this time against a better team. Gave up 29 in the first, 61 by half time. The team looked like they were aggressive early though. Pascal grabbed a rebound after shouting it was his, ran up the floor and tried to make a bucket. Scottie followed suit. It was like they were going to be different this time, except they weren't really. Eventually Pascal decided to fade out and not try as hard. Scottie however did and had a great individual game. But again not much help for him.

OG and the bench was a weird look that sort of worked this time around. Precious and Chris were really good and hustling. Although they had some bone headed plays that lead to turnovers. Chris had that great rebound and dunk after a Gary airball (although it was likely tipped) late. Didn't mind the bench staying in the game as they helped rally them to a closer game. It just fell off when Jokic decided to make some crazy plays with no time left on the clock. It's just tough when you are playing catch up all game long. And again down double digits at points.

I can see why Boston rallied a couple of years ago when they traded Schroeder. We have no options at PG since Malachi is even worse. But Dennis is mostly a bench guard and it's been showing more and more this month. He had good chemistry with Jak early in the season. But now not so much.

Jak had a bad game again. OG is not showing much max potential this season.

Not really sure what more to add. Denver was beatable and they lost. But so were a lot of teams like Charlotte, Atlanta, NY twice, etc. Just think the team is poised to make the lottery. Sucks that they won't get rewarded for getting there. Raptors are now 12th in the East. 4.5 games back from 6th (ie, playoff spot) with 6 teams ahead of them in the standings. Still about 3/4 of a season left but that's terrible.

It's starting to look likely we keep our pick. Won't take much for Utah and Memphis to pass us in the standings and then we're bottom 6.

Masai needs to put everyone not named Scottie on the table. Blow it up. Then at least we could be losing on purpose and selling hope. We're sure as hell not selling wins.

[planetmars]

Same old story.. this time against a better team. Gave up 29 in the first, 61 by half time. The team looked like they were aggressive early though. Pascal grabbed a rebound after shouting it was his, ran up the floor and tried to make a bucket. Scottie followed suit. It was like they were going to be different this time, except they weren't really. Eventually Pascal decided to fade out and not try as hard. Scottie however did and had a great individual game. But again not much help for him.

OG and the bench was a weird look that sort of worked this time around. Precious and Chris were really good and hustling. Although they had some bone headed plays that lead to turnovers. Chris had that great rebound and dunk after a Gary airball (although it was likely tipped) late. Didn't mind the bench staying in the game as they helped rally them to a closer game. It just fell off when Jokic decided to make some crazy plays with no time left on the clock. It's just tough when you are playing catch up all game long. And again down double digits at points.

I can see why Boston rallied a couple of years ago when they traded Schroeder. We have no options at PG since Malachi is even worse. But Dennis is mostly a bench guard and it's been showing more and more this month. He had good chemistry with Jak early in the season. But now not so much.

Jak had a bad game again. OG is not showing much max potential this season.

Not really sure what more to add. Denver was beatable and they lost. But so were a lot of teams like Charlotte, Atlanta, NY twice, etc. Just think the team is poised to make the lottery. Sucks that they won't get rewarded for getting there. Raptors are now 12th in the East. 4.5 games back from 6th (ie, playoff spot) with 6 teams ahead of them in the standings. Still about 3/4 of a season left but that's terrible.

[slaw]

10 of the next 12 in the road folks. Siakam and OG checked out until the trade deadline.

Buckle up….

[slaw]

Fucking brutal

In fairness, Denver is a far superior team and had the two best players on the court. Raps were never going to win that game. They kept it close and at least made it somewhat interesting. Scottie had a great game. Best you could ask. That’s where we are.