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  • #91
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I don't think this has anything to do with it. I really don't know if Masai meddles, but I really don't get the impression that he interferes in any way, and that he wants the coach to feel free to coach the way they see fit.

    I think Casey values ballhandling and shooting more than anything, and also vets over youngsters. So Greivis ends up getting lots of minutes, as does Lou, even though they're both streaky players who offer little in terms of all-around 2-way game. And guys like Ross and JJ get jerked around...basically because they're not vets and because their game isn't as suited to hero-ball.
    Oh I don't think Masai meddles. I think Casey's just trying to please him.
    "Stop eating your sushi."
    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
    - Jack Armstrong

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    • #92
      So much to unpack. We all know JJ has to play more. Whatever Casey is trying to sell to the media, and their willingness to lap it up is a shame. If other players did their roles he wouldn't have to feel obligated to over-help.

      We know GV can't defend, but look how deep he sets up. Always flat, never forcing angles. The guy gives his man enough space to get a run up before driving. Is it too much to ask him to set up at or above the three line? Create an angle where help is? Your guy is going to get by you, but could you not give him carte blanche?

      Amir can't defend stretch 4's anymore. He's injured. The other teams know he's injured and adjust their starting lineups. That's the reason why when Tyler comes on, a lot of the stretch 4 scoring goes away. How many no-name stretch 4's, or SF's playing the 4 have to have their best nights versus the Raps before Casey adjusts?

      I could go on, there's a lot of small issues that pile up and create mountains with these guys. The worse being, Casey waits until deficits grow into double figures before he calls timeouts. How could expecting your team to auto-correct, with so few players over 30, make sense?

      None of the defensive issues are tied to JJ and I HOPE this man is not insinuating so. If he has discipline issues the Raps better find a non-basketball way to punish JJ. He needs to be on the court, a lot more.

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      • #93
        JJ has had the same issue for years. He got traded out of Chicago cause Thibs wouldn't play him. Despite playing well in Memphis, he watched Tayshaun Prince eat his minutes to the point where he barely played. Everyone seems puzzled by this happening over and over but it's not complicated: coaches don't trust him. And it's happened everywhere he's played.

        On the article, Zarar's take is pretty disingenuous here. Casey never once blamed Toronto's defensive woes on JJ. He explained why he wasn't playing. Oddly, it's the exact same reason he didn't play in Chicago or in Memphis.

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        • #94
          JimiCliff wrote: View Post
          Oh I don't think Masai meddles. I think Casey's just trying to please him.
          Fair enough

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          • #95
            slaw wrote: View Post
            JJ has had the same issue for years. He got traded out of Chicago cause Thibs wouldn't play him. Despite playing well in Memphis, he watched Tayshaun Prince eat his minutes to the point where he barely played. Everyone seems puzzled by this happening over and over but it's not complicated: coaches don't trust him. And it's happened everywhere he's played.

            On the article, Zarar's take is pretty disingenuous here. Casey never once blamed Toronto's defensive woes on JJ. He explained why he wasn't playing. Oddly, it's the exact same reason he didn't play in Chicago or in Memphis.
            I think the thing that's frustrating most isn't this angle. Most people seem to get that JJ is a bit of a nutcase.

            I think it's when you look at who the coach(es) do trust, that's when people get frustrated. Ok...so JJ isn't doing things the way Casey wants him to, and it's affected his playing time and role...no problem understanding that...But, does that mean that other guys are doing things the way Casey wants them to? Because that could be very alarming. Even just in regards to the lack of defensive discipline, JJ is certainly not the only culprit. Why has no one else been punished for similar bad habits? The only answer I can think of is that other guys are simply not held to the same standard because Casey values other things they bring (eg ballhandling, shooting), and lives with the dreadful defensive impact.
            Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Mar 30, 2015, 05:57 PM.

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            • #96
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              I think the thing that's frustrating most isn't this angle. Most people seem to get that JJ is a bit of a nutcase.

              I think it's when you look at who the coach(es) do trust, that's when people get frustrated. Ok...so JJ isn't doing things the way Casey wants him to, and it's affected his playing time and role...no problem understanding that...But, does that mean that other guys are doing things the way Casey wants them to? Because that could be very alarming. Even just in regards to the lack of defensive discipline, JJ is certainly not the only culprit. Why has no one else been punished for similar bad habits? The only answer I can think of is that other guys are simply not held to the same standard because Casey values other things they bring (eg ballhandling, shooting), and lives with the dreadful defensive impact.
              It wouldn't surprise me if DC's response would be something along the lines of "DeRozan, Lowry and those other guys are supposed to score. They aren't on the court for their defense, so as long as they're scoring and giving solid effort, I'm fine with them." I wonder if the scrutiny on JJ's defense is because he was given a "defense" card, which would explain why he'd be singled out (not saying I agree with it, because I hate the whole role card thing to begin with).

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              • #97
                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                It wouldn't surprise me if DC's response would be something along the lines of "DeRozan, Lowry and those other guys are supposed to score. They aren't on the court for their defense, so as long as they're scoring and giving solid effort, I'm fine with them." I wonder if the scrutiny on JJ's defense is because he was given a "defense" card, which would explain why he'd be singled out (not saying I agree with it, because I hate the whole role card thing to begin with).
                Which would just make Casey look worse. There's a reason that pretty much every metaphor about D reflects many acting as one. You need similar commitment from all 5 guys in order for the D to succeed. If some are basically allowed to put in less work on that end, that's a massive problem. And we're not talking results here...obviously some guys are better than others...but rather things like effort, or executing with sound fundamentals/IQ.

                *The simple way of putting this is if Casey is really a defensive coach, the first role on every card should be 'defence'.
                Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Mar 30, 2015, 06:29 PM.

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                • #98
                  SamMitchells wrote: View Post
                  Is he retarded? Or are we too smart.
                  What seems obvious is totally oblivious to the Raptors organization. Yes I call the whole organization out not just 1 piece of the puzzle.

                  It would be great if someone would have an objective interview with DC. There are so many holes and gaps in his approach to basketball as a whole. If he's a defensive genius / top basketball minds of the world ( as people say) - then he should be able to break down and crush any argument against him.

                  But it's similar to asking tough questions to a politician, they will always find a way out of it or you simply never get a chance .

                  All we do is speculate
                  Is he retarded? YES.

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                  • #99
                    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    ...But, does that mean that other guys are doing things the way Casey wants them to? Because that could be very alarming...
                    Laughed out loud at this.

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                    • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                      Oh I don't think Masai meddles. I think Casey's just trying to please him.
                      Perhaps MU should meddle and challenge DC.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        If DD would work on his passing, decision-making and 3-pt shot, within the structure of a true ball movement offense then he could be an extremely valuable asset. Some of those things are dependent on coaching and team philosophy, which is why I have a hard time jumping too hard onto the anti-DD bandwagon (i.e. shot selection, ball-hogging, BBIQ, drawing fouls, etc...). With his work ethic, you could easily envision him reaching a higher level of efficiency with another team and system, not unlike Rudy Gay. Problem is, in the current system his trade value isn't as high as it should be.

                        Player development is another issue. Hard to know if he's been specifically instructed to work on his "handles", but those are usually the clips he tweets out in the off-season. If DD is smart, he would realize that 3-pt shooters are the ones getting paid these days. Again, with his supposedly legendary work ethic, there should be no reason why an "all-star" shooting guard can't develop at least an average 3-pt shot. You would think that the Raps coaching staff would be paying for DD to work with a high-end shooting coach, in addition to these "insane handles" gurus and Hakeem Olajuwon post moves sessions.
                        Wade is how many years into the NBA and he's a career sub-30% 3 point shooter. Some players just don't become good 3 point shooters. Now OBVIOUSLY Wade makes up for this in other ways but still, not every SG is going to be a good 3 point shooter.

                        Also DeMar has been working on shooting 3s every summer. There's actually stats that show him to be pretty good from the corner. Its just anywhere away from that corner and we're seeing air balls likes last night lol

                        Comment


                        • Hmm.. I read Casey's comments differently. I don't think James Johnson is getting singled out and picked on, but rather that the Raptors are trying to hedge their bets on one guy. The way I see it is you have two choices.

                          Either you try to incrementally improve an average defender, or you take your best defender and try to make him into an elite defender.

                          On the one hand, for example Terrence Ross, athletically, could become an elite defender down the road, with tons of practice, experience and then more practice. He still has a lot to learn. DeMar is your scorer, so while you want him to become a great defender, he has many more responsibilities he needs to worry about. Kyle Lowry is undersized and while he has the brains to become a great defender, he lacks the size to fulfill that destiny. Then you have James Johnson who is already a good defender.

                          Option number two is to try to train an already good defender to become an elite defender.

                          I don't really know about the minutes distribution -- I wonder if that is just mind games or motivational tool, but I do see that the Raptors have an opportunity to turn our best defender into potentially an elite defender and the onus is on both Casey to drill him and James to buy into that as a possibility. It may seem unfair to onlookers that Casey would pick on a player that is already doing quite well in the department when others have much bigger issues, but you could look at it in another way.

                          The simplest analogy I can think of is a piano teacher who lays into one particular student because he feels that student has the potential to become a prodigy, whereas he couldn't care less if his other students practice or not because they simply don't have the talent. They're only there because their parents think they are good, or just want to give their kids an extra-curricular activity. However, his already best student is the one he pushes the most, and singles out, and publicly humiliates in front of all his other students.
                          your pal,
                          ebrian

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                          • ebrian wrote: View Post
                            Hmm.. I read Casey's comments differently. I don't think James Johnson is getting singled out and picked on, but rather that the Raptors are trying to hedge their bets on one guy. The way I see it is you have two choices.

                            Either you try to incrementally improve an average defender, or you take your best defender and try to make him into an elite defender.

                            On the one hand, for example Terrence Ross, athletically, could become an elite defender down the road, with tons of practice, experience and then more practice. He still has a lot to learn. DeMar is your scorer, so while you want him to become a great defender, he has many more responsibilities he needs to worry about. Kyle Lowry is undersized and while he has the brains to become a great defender, he lacks the size to fulfill that destiny. Then you have James Johnson who is already a good defender.

                            Option number two is to try to train an already good defender to become an elite defender.

                            I don't really know about the minutes distribution -- I wonder if that is just mind games or motivational tool, but I do see that the Raptors have an opportunity to turn our best defender into potentially an elite defender and the onus is on both Casey to drill him and James to buy into that as a possibility. It may seem unfair to onlookers that Casey would pick on a player that is already doing quite well in the department when others have much bigger issues, but you could look at it in another way.

                            The simplest analogy I can think of is a piano teacher who lays into one particular student because he feels that student has the potential to become a prodigy, whereas he couldn't care less if his other students practice or not because they simply don't have the talent. They're only there because their parents think they are good, or just want to give their kids an extra-curricular activity. However, his already best student is the one he pushes the most, and singles out, and publicly humiliates in front of all his other students.
                            I had a coach do that to me in high school, I ended up breaking his brothers jaw in practice on a post up. That pretty much sums up how I feel about that approach.

                            Comment


                            • Bandit wrote: View Post
                              I had a coach do that to me in high school, I ended up breaking his brothers jaw in practice on a post up. That pretty much sums up how I feel about that approach.
                              Haha.. I'm not saying that's the best approach, but I do think that is what's happening here. The alternative is to think that Casey is Sam Mitchell Part 2 and this is Dwane's way of "bodyslamming" James Johnson.

                              I prefer to think that Casey is actually trying to accomplish something positive here.
                              your pal,
                              ebrian

                              Comment


                              • ebrian wrote: View Post
                                Hmm.. I read Casey's comments differently. I don't think James Johnson is getting singled out and picked on, but rather that the Raptors are trying to hedge their bets on one guy. The way I see it is you have two choices.

                                Either you try to incrementally improve an average defender, or you take your best defender and try to make him into an elite defender.

                                On the one hand, for example Terrence Ross, athletically, could become an elite defender down the road, with tons of practice, experience and then more practice. He still has a lot to learn. DeMar is your scorer, so while you want him to become a great defender, he has many more responsibilities he needs to worry about. Kyle Lowry is undersized and while he has the brains to become a great defender, he lacks the size to fulfill that destiny. Then you have James Johnson who is already a good defender.

                                Option number two is to try to train an already good defender to become an elite defender.

                                I don't really know about the minutes distribution -- I wonder if that is just mind games or motivational tool, but I do see that the Raptors have an opportunity to turn our best defender into potentially an elite defender and the onus is on both Casey to drill him and James to buy into that as a possibility. It may seem unfair to onlookers that Casey would pick on a player that is already doing quite well in the department when others have much bigger issues, but you could look at it in another way.

                                The simplest analogy I can think of is a piano teacher who lays into one particular student because he feels that student has the potential to become a prodigy, whereas he couldn't care less if his other students practice or not because they simply don't have the talent. They're only there because their parents think they are good, or just want to give their kids an extra-curricular activity. However, his already best student is the one he pushes the most, and singles out, and publicly humiliates in front of all his other students.
                                Sorry, but public humiliation is not a good thing...not in front of one's peers nor publically. Pro athetes are typically adults as well....not children. They have gone through various stages of their talent growth at an advanced level andhave to be handled carefully and differently than when they were younger. I am reminded of what Popovich said about how he handles his players (I paraphrase)...that he already expects a certain professionalism from them at this stage, He advises them about what he expects from them on and off the court and its game on from there. If the player does not respond...he is gone (I assume after an opportunity or two to correct). No humiliation necessary.

                                Caveat: I admit I have seen a contradiction to the Popovich account where during a telecast he was openly berating Parker & Ginobili in different games for mistakes. But by this time they were many years and championships together and their personal relationships were at another level.

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