Everything 2024 Draft

[The Great One]

Tolzman says a lot without saying anything. Learned from the best.

He studied Ross Atkins a lot.

[Primer]

Few things here.

1) I don't want them to trade a pick. But if they move a pick, I would bet they would prefer to move #19 over #31. One because #19 is likely going to get them more in a trade. And two, because I think the talent level between 19 and 31 is pretty close in this draft. Yes we could lose out if someone drops like Topic or Dillingham. But I think that decision becomes clearer if that person isn't dropping to 19. We will have a better idea of what goes down during the draft. And trading 19 is likely going to happen when the 19th pick comes up and not before then.

2) As for the 2022 draft. There are rumours of Utah considering moving Kessler now. I don't think he's as good as he really is if that's true. Nor do I think he was ever in our radar. I think Nembhard was definitely a guy they wanted. But is there really that much of a difference between him and Koloko? I mean they played different positions so hard to compared, and unfortunately for Christian he had blood clots and had to retire. But ultimately the talent level was pretty much similar between the pick we gave to SA and the pick we got instead which is why I used that as a comparison to this year's draft.

3) We are not cash strapped now but every penny matters. Not this season but next season or the season after. We just gave Scottie a max, and it could turn to a super max. IQ is going to get an extension too. We may get someone in free agency. Also a second rounder is cheaper for the first 4 years of their deal than a first rounder is as a first rounder hits RFA after 3 years.

Yes, Nembhard is clearly a much better NBA player than Koloko. Based on both their first years and of course this year. Don't think you'd find a single person on this forum who thinks there isn't much talent difference there. Nembhard >>>> Koloko.

Your reasons as for why we'd want to move 19 over 31 don't make a ton of sense. We'd get a better return for 19 than 31? No shit, that doesn't mean we would want to move the better pick. I don't think you can logically assume we'd get just as good a player at 31 as 19, that's statistically extremely unlikely. It's 12 picks later. If we trade 19 it would be to move up.

3. It's a $900K per year difference in 1st year salary pick 19 vs 31. Those are pennies that don't matter. Far more important we add the best players possible when we desperately need more talent not an extra $900K in cap space. Also 1st rounders don't hit RFA until after 4 years.

[Demographic Shift]

Few things here.

1) I don't want them to trade a pick. But if they move a pick, I would bet they would prefer to move #19 over #31. One because #19 is likely going to get them more in a trade. And two, because I think the talent level between 19 and 31 is pretty close in this draft. Yes we could lose out if someone drops like Topic or Dillingham. But I think that decision becomes clearer if that person isn't dropping to 19. We will have a better idea of what goes down during the draft. And trading 19 is likely going to happen when the 19th pick comes up and not before then.

2) As for the 2022 draft. There are rumours of Utah considering moving Kessler now. I don't think he's as good as he really is if that's true. Nor do I think he was ever in our radar. I think Nembhard was definitely a guy they wanted. But is there really that much of a difference between him and Koloko? I mean they played different positions so hard to compared, and unfortunately for Christian he had blood clots and had to retire. But ultimately the talent level was pretty much similar between the pick we gave to SA and the pick we got instead which is why I used that as a comparison to this year's draft.

3) We are not cash strapped now but every penny matters. Not this season but next season or the season after. We just gave Scottie a max, and it could turn to a super max. IQ is going to get an extension too. We may get someone in free agency. Also a second rounder is cheaper for the first 4 years of their deal than a first rounder is as a first rounder hits RFA after 3 years.

If Topic slides and is still on the board at 11....
Would you give up the 31st and 19 to move up to get the PG of the future from the Bulls ?
Bulls a little to close to the cap and are in reset mode.... A friendly contract at 31 for a team that could use it...
The assumption is the Bulls take it... Do you do it for Topic and a potentially wonky brandon roy knee ?

[planetmars]

Yes, Nembhard is clearly a much better NBA player than Koloko. Based on both their first years and of course this year. Don't think you'd find a single person on this forum who thinks there isn't much talent difference there. Nembhard >>>> Koloko.

Your reasons as for why we'd want to move 19 over 31 don't make a ton of sense. We'd get a better return for 19 than 31? No shit, that doesn't mean we would want to move the better pick. I don't think you can logically assume we'd get just as good a player at 31 as 19, that's statistically extremely unlikely. It's 12 picks later. If we trade 19 it would be to move up.

3. It's a $900K per year difference in 1st year salary pick 19 vs 31. Those are pennies that don't matter. Far more important we add the best players possible when we desperately need more talent not an extra $900K in cap space. Also 1st rounders don't hit RFA until after 4 years.

I mean Koloko isn't in the NBA anymore so why are you comparing this year? That's dumb. They play different positions too. But Koloko was just as good as Nembhard in their rookie years.

And we're trading a pick with Brown right? To get someone else. So I think they would prefer to trade 19 over 31 like I said. Just like they did back when they traded for Thad. There is precedence for it already.

Any difference in salary is helpful. Otherwise teams won't have to trade away players with picks. Again something the Raptors have done a few times already.

[planetmars]

If Topic slides and is still on the board at 11....
Would you give up the 31st and 19 to move up to get the PG of the future from the Bulls ?
Bulls a little to close to the cap and are in reset mode.... A friendly contract at 31 for a team that could use it...
The assumption is the Bulls take it... Do you do it for Topic and a potentially wonky brandon roy knee ?

Nope. I don't trade 2 picks for Topic. I take him if he slides to 19 though.

[Shredder]

If we're moving up, I hope we retain our two picks.

Brown, Boucher, Jak, etc

Go younger.

Get a decent pick next year.

This thought could bite us later, but with Scottie signing a potential super max, the FO might make it harder for him to get all NBA this year. If we trade Jak now, we are probably not a playoff team. If we are a playoff team without Jak, then Scottie deserves the super max.

[planetmars]

So much to digest in this article, but he makes a pretty good case to pick Edey:
https://theswishtheory.com/2024-nba-...tional-talent/

Again not someone I would choose, but if Edey is there at 19 and we take him I will be super intrigued.

[Demographic Shift]

Nope. I don't trade 2 picks for Topic. I take him if he slides to 19 though.

His leg would have be severed from his body for him to slide to 19.


Two strategies.
Aggregate picks and hope someone works out as a NBA role player in a pretty even draft after 10.
or
Take a shot at a pick that could be a starter.

Both work... both need good scouting.
Can't wait to find out what rabbit comes out of the hat on draft night.
The natives are restless.

[planetmars]

His leg would have be severed from his body for him to slide to 19.


Two strategies.
Aggregate picks and hope someone works out as a NBA role player in a pretty even draft after 10.
or
Take a shot at a pick that could be a starter.

Both work... both need good scouting.
Can't wait to find out what rabbit comes out of the hat on draft night.
The natives are restless.

We've seen guys slide before. Cam Whitmore was a top 6-7 pick last year and was taken at 20. Once a guy falls, and keeps falling other teams question why he's falling and decide to take someone else.

I think this draft is pretty much the same from 10 to 31. I think there will be diamonds in the rough.. and one or two can become starters, or heck even alls-tars. I just don't make that bet by giving up two chances on getting that guy. Plus the Raptors need more depth.

If we had a pretty stacked roster and only had like one position to fill, then aggregation would makes more sense to me.

[Primer]

I mean Koloko isn't in the NBA anymore so why are you comparing this year? That's dumb. They play different positions too. But Koloko was just as good as Nembhard in their rookie years.

And we're trading a pick with Brown right? To get someone else. So I think they would prefer to trade 19 over 31 like I said. Just like they did back when they traded for Thad. There is precedence for it already.

Any difference in salary is helpful. Otherwise teams won't have to trade away players with picks. Again something the Raptors have done a few times already.

Nembhard was way better than Koloko his rookie season. Are you taking crazy pills???

Nembhard started 63 games out of the 85 he played, averaged 28 mpg and put up good numbers across the board.

Koloko was straight up bad. 48% FG for a center. Foul machine (5.6 per 36). Low rebound numbers. Bad FT shooter. He blocked shots and that was it. We were hopeful he would get better over time but he was nowhere near Nembhard that is just insane talk.

Are we trading a pick with Brown?

Could we? Sure.

Is that the most likely scenario? Not at all.

If we do include a pick in a Brown trade it makes zero sense we would prefer to include the much better draft pick. We would prefer to include the worse pick and preferably no pick.

You think the Thad trade was a precedent setting moment for the franchise and something we are itching to repeat? I'm also pretty confused what you think the precedent even was? We wanted a playoff push and traded down in exchange a playoff push player. It wasn't to save salary. That has zero bearing on this offseason. Like what is the parallel?

[3inthekeon]

We've seen guys slide before. Cam Whitmore was a top 6-7 pick last year and was taken at 20. Once a guy falls, and keeps falling other teams question why he's falling and decide to take someone else.

I think this draft is pretty much the same from 10 to 31. I think there will be diamonds in the rough.. and one or two can become starters, or heck even alls-tars. I just don't make that bet by giving up two chances on getting that guy. Plus the Raptors need more depth.

If we had a pretty stacked roster and only had like one position to fill, then aggregation would makes more sense to me.

Whitmore slid for similar reasons OG slid. Teams didn't like his medicals.

[planetmars]

Nembhard was way better than Koloko his rookie season. Are you taking crazy pills???

Nembhard started 63 games out of the 85 he played, averaged 28 mpg and put up good numbers across the board.

Koloko was straight up bad. 48% FG for a center. Foul machine (5.6 per 36). Low rebound numbers. Bad FT shooter. He blocked shots and that was it. We were hopeful he would get better over time but he was nowhere near Nembhard that is just insane talk.

Are we trading a pick with Brown?

Could we? Sure.

Is that the most likely scenario? Not at all.

If we do include a pick in a Brown trade it makes zero sense we would prefer to include the much better draft pick. We would prefer to include the worse pick and preferably no pick.

You think the Thad trade was a precedent setting moment for the franchise and something we are itching to repeat? I'm also pretty confused what you think the precedent even was? We wanted a playoff push and traded down in exchange a playoff push player. It wasn't to save salary. That has zero bearing on this offseason. Like what is the parallel?

Now look at their advanced stats and get back to me. And not TS%.. but PIPM, EPM, RPM, VORP, etc.

I'm replying to a poster who wanted to trade Brown with #31. And I was saying what our team would likely do instead. As our team has traded down in a draft before. I would not trade either pick. I don't want a win now player. I want the team to be bad next season.

I'm not saying what I would do. I'm saying what this team would likely do. That Thad trade was to salvage getting anything decent back for Dragic who was no longer playing for the Raptors. And the reasons they gave was they said the draft looked pretty even for them and they were right.

[LJ2]

Are you hoping they make the playoffs or hoping they don't? I'm hoping they bottom out next season. We need another elite level prospect in 2025 and that draft is looking really good, but I want a top 7-8 pick and not a pick in the 10-15 range. And without making the playoffs, there is a good chance Scottie doesn't make all-nba which helps too. I'm ready for one more year of bad basketball.

So I personally hope they don't bring in a high rotation level player. At least not yet. I'm cool with the 2 picks and I'd like to use the cap space to get a bad contract and a future pick. Lots of teams will be hurting from a cap perspective. We can be one of the teams with cap space that helps those teams out. We can let that bad contract stay home too so they don't steal minutes from our young guys.

If Brown's option is picked up and is not traded that will suck. But they have all summer to rectify that decision. If he's wearing a Raptors uniform on opening day, that will be pretty brutal to be honest.

If they were going to tank they would have traded OG and Siakam for picks and bad contracts so I don't think it's in the cards. If there are injuries and the season goes bad they may pivot with a soft tank like they've done the last couple of seasons but otherwise I see them trying to make the playoffs.

With that in mind and the full expectation that Scottie is going to turn into a star I want them to surround him with good players. Whether that's trading Brown and picks to move up in the draft for someone they like or making an FA a big offer or whatever other options they have. I'd like to see them be aggressive.

[The Great One]

Check out what Givony has to say about Dunn.

[LJ2]

Looks like the Raps have had workouts with Da Silva and George based on the updated tracker.