Everything 2024 Draft

[golden]

No their expertise is fine.. they are doing the best they can with the information they have. But to insinuate its the worst draft of all time without seeing what happens 5 years later with the players that get drafted is what is dumb.

Bingo. Just like the meterologists from 3 decades ago.

[LJ2]

No their expertise is fine.. they are doing the best they can with the information they have. But to insinuate its the worst draft of all time without seeing what happens 5 years later with the players that get drafted is what is dumb.

I agree and disagree with this take.

For sure we don't know how these players will turn out, but like you said the draft guys analyze the players based on the information they have. That information tells them there aren't that many physically dominant guys like Zion or ultra quick guys like Ivey or unique guys like Scottie, in this draft. They are insinuating this is the worst draft of all time based on the the information they use to analyze talent, but it doesn't mean they are saying there couldn't be good players that come out of it.

[planetmars]

Having two days for the two rounds can be very interesting for the Raptors who own potentially the first pick in that second round:

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...t-second-round

How much this change impacts draft strategy remains to be seen. Team sources told ESPN that picks in the 20s and 30s could potentially take on additional value due to the extended break in the draft. In theory, teams might aim to trade up to snag their preferred players before the rest of the league has had an entire night to reevaluate the board. Team sources also said they believe a stronger trade market could open up, particularly for picks in the 30s, due to the added time to examine the board.

Most importantly, teams will have more time to parse through the flurry of transactions that typically happen on the clock or close to it. The changes brought by the 2023 collective bargaining agreement introduced a second-round exception to facilitate signing rookies to multiyear minimum deals without impacting offseason cap space, giving high-payroll teams even more incentive to nail those picks.

"The increased pressure we face to trade picks from the end of the lottery through pick 60 requires more time to process in the moment," one Western Conference executive told ESPN. "Two days allows for the possibility of a longer transaction cycle around the draft and celebrates a signature moment in the league's calendar."

Let's see if we can create a bidding war for that pick. Or have a full day to consider who we want for that pick before selecting it after re-examining our white board.

[golden]

I agree and disagree with this take.

For sure we don't know how these players will turn out, but like you said the draft guys analyze the players based on the information they have. That information tells them there aren't that many physically dominant guys like Zion or ultra quick guys like Ivey or unique guys like Scottie, in this draft. They are insinuating this is the worst draft of all time based on the the information they use to analyze talent, but it doesn't mean they are saying there couldn't be good players that come out of it.

So it's the worst draft of all time... but there could still be good players to come out of it? Like how many? 5 all-stars, like the dog-poop 2006 draft. If it's the worst draft of all-time, then the experts should predict zero, or maybe 1 all-star... at best.

[planetmars]

I agree and disagree with this take.

For sure we don't know how these players will turn out, but like you said the draft guys analyze the players based on the information they have. That information tells them there aren't that many physically dominant guys like Zion or ultra quick guys like Ivey or unique guys like Scottie, in this draft. They are insinuating this is the worst draft of all time based on the the information they use to analyze talent, but it doesn't mean they are saying there couldn't be good players that come out of it.

If they are only looking at the draft from the perspective of the here and now, and comparing that to previous draft classes, before they became NBA players, then that's fine. But I'm not sure they are doing that. And ultimately its a super hot take anyway.

Besides our own president and GM traded for multiple picks in this weakest draft of all time. So what does that say? Could our guys see something that those experts don't? As our guys are some of the best in the business when it comes to drafting players.

[golden]

If they are only looking at the draft from the perspective of the here and now, and comparing that to previous draft classes, before they became NBA players, then that's fine. But I'm not sure they are doing that. And ultimately its a super hot take anyway.

Besides our own president and GM traded for multiple picks in this weakest draft of all time. So what does that say? Could our guys see something that those experts don't? As our guys are some of the best in the business when it comes to drafting players.

Nah, I don't think they see something special. Masai said in the presser that he wasn't going to use all the Pacers picks, and then promptly traded away the late first-rounder for Ochai. The Pascal deal was just a "take what you can get" situation because we let him get to expiring with zero leverage.

[LJ2]

So it's the worst draft of all time... but there could still be good players to come out of it? Like how many? 5 all-stars, like the dog-poop 2006 draft. If it's the worst draft of all-time, then the experts should predict zero, or maybe 1 all-star... at best.

It means the criteria they use to predict how players will turn out in the NBA doesn't see a lot of talent. It's anyone's guess how many Jokic's or Bane's might be lurking. Guys that nobody could predict would turn out as good as they did whether that is a super star or role player.

[Kagemusha]

I'm not talking about nailing every single player projection. It's simple stuff, like consensus mocks universally ranking Marvin Bagley ahead of Luka Doncic. And the example I showed you for the 2014 "generational draft" starring Jabari Parker and 5 duds out of the top 10 picks. And then there's Jokic. These are just a few examples of egregious group think by the experts, and seriously franchise altering evaluations.

But even your 2006 example of a crap draft had 5 all-stars, including: Rondo (#21), Millsap (#47!) and the GROAT/future HoFer, Kyle Lowry (#24). So yet again, the experts predicted another draft wrong.

It seems more like the outlier is the experts actually getting it right, so logic would dictate that you shouldn't listen to the experts.

Who even labelled those guys draft 'experts'? LOL
Teams don't draft based on those 'experts' opinions anyway.
They have their talent evaluators and scouts that monitor these players from high school to college,
and even then they also have to factor in individual workouts and interviews.

These 'experts' opinions are just for us, ie public consumption.

[golden]

Who even labelled those guys draft 'experts'? LOL
Teams don't draft based on those 'experts' opinions anyway.
They have their talent evaluators and scouts that monitor these players from high school to college,
and even then they also have to factor in individual workouts and interviews.

These 'experts' opinions are just for us, ie public consumption.

The front office experts have just as bad a track record as the pre-draft mock experts. So it doesn't matter if you're a paid professional draft expert or a reporter.... both are equally bad. And keep in mind... the reporters are getting their information mostly from NBA front offices & scouts.

[LJ2]

If they are only looking at the draft from the perspective of the here and now, and comparing that to previous draft classes, before they became NBA players, then that's fine. But I'm not sure they are doing that. And ultimately its a super hot take anyway.

Besides our own president and GM traded for multiple picks in this weakest draft of all time. So what does that say? Could our guys see something that those experts don't? As our guys are some of the best in the business when it comes to drafting players.

For your first point I'd say absolutely. They are trying to predict the draft order for this year's draft, not for how guys will turn out 2 or 5 or 10 years from now.

For your second point about Massai trading for picks there is just too many variables around how or why those picks were accumulated. A lot of it was out of his hands and may have been the best he could get in return in those trades. Or like you are insinuating maybe he really likes this draft.

[TrueTorontoFan]

If this draft has no obvious all-star talents then why not draft a really, really good role player? Isn't it better to get a guy that you know can play at the NBA level, even as a 6th man or 5th option as a starter then a potential bust? And role players can be 1-way players.

Clingan is potentially projected to go #1 because he has really good defensive metrics in college. He might just be a role player.. but I mean getting a starting caliber center that can protect the rim is probably something a lot of teams could use. Even the Raptors for example. Even if he just ends up being a backup for the first 1-2 years of his career.

Right so my point is if you want to go for a mobile rim protector go for someone else. Messi for example is very raw but has the mobility. One of the things that we miss with Koloko gone is the future rim protection but we shouldn't just be looking for a big body. To me he had offensive upside with his passing and how he could allow you to be more aggressive ont he perimeter as well as have the ability to play drop coverage as well because he wasn't just big but he was agile and fast. Clingan commonly will be out of position or get blown by but he has the length to still contest. Edey will just give up on the other hand when beat.

I deally you have someone who can stay with guys.


This is why Sarr is so interesting because he can guard out on the perimeter... offensively is a bit raw but is fluid enough with enough flashes that you wont hve to spend 3 years to make him decent from beyond the rim. He may not be an option (sarr) but that doesn't mean we NEED to force getting a center right away. We need the right players not just more bandaid solutions. I dont want a back up I want someone who is good enough to force you to move off a guy like poeltl. If that doesn't exist then I think the wing talent and depth is interesting enough in this draft because you have guys who have a bit more size to them. Tyler Smith is 6'11 in the top 6 Matas is 6'10-6'11 that alone helps with your size and length that is now lacking. They also will not risk you getting beat in switches like poeltl does but people tend to ignore. Go back to the boston and philly games and look at how KP and embiid just sat in the paint and dared poeltl to do anything. Edey OR clingan aren't doing anything more ... and frankly both are slower than our center who frankly is a bit slow footed already. I mean edey barely gets up and down the floor quickly enough Clingan is better with that regard.... but I am kind of bored of talking about the centers in this draft. I do think Ware is up there too as someone who at least has the potential to offer you more. I am not completely sold on him alone

[Kagemusha]

The front office experts have just as bad a track record as the pre-draft mock experts. So it doesn't matter if you're a paid professional draft expert or a reporter.... both are equally bad. And keep in mind... the reporters are getting their information mostly from NBA front offices & scouts.

And who knows what the team scouts are feeding them.
A team that is eyeing a certain player would feed negative report on him.

[golden]

Losing Koloko really hurts. His numbers were elite defensively, even as a rookie. Offense was the big problem, but he just needed to learn how to use the pump-fake to stop him from getting stuffed at the rim. Add in his developing 3-pt shot, and he would be the perfect modern center.

[A.I]

Losing Koloko really hurts. His numbers were elite defensively, even as a rookie. Offense was the big problem, but he just needed to learn how to use the pump-fake to stop him from getting stuffed at the rim. Add in his developing 3-pt shot, and he would be the perfect modern center.

I was excited to watch and see how he developed this season. Unfortunately that didn't happen.

Weird season lol. You lose your backup C to a blood clot. You sign another backup C who will face consequences for gambling issues.

[golden]

And who knows what the team scouts are feeding them.
A team that is eyeing a certain player would feed negative report on him.

Front office mis-information is definitely a thing. Except that the mocks and actual NBA draft positions tend be relatively close.

Just use the simple example of 2018: Mocks had Bagley over Luka. That had to be mis-direction, right? Because what NBA front office could actually do professional basketball talent evaluation and have Bagley even within 3-4 tiers of Luka? And Ayton to a lesser degree. Kings & Suns followed the mocks.

Here's the consensus mock from NBA.com, based on a wide range of sources:

https://www.nba.com/news/2018-consensus-mock-draft