Kelly: Raptors fans need to find a balance on their emotional see-saw

[OldSkoolCool]

Who's we? I certainly never did. Lol I absolutely consider Demar to be a key part going forward; especially if we consider Lowry a keeper. Why keep Lowry if not with the hope to be successful. If we're tanking, then tank and trade everything, but there's no point in keeping Lowry if we're literally trading everyone else. By the time we would be even remotely competitive again, Lowry would be long past his prime.

I consider you're proposal far too drastic a change without first seeing what the smaller changes I suggested will grant us.

Royal we

Based on the "building blocks" thread, JV, Lowry and Bruno were the only ones with majority votes for core pieces.

You were 1 of 3 (or 4 posters) who voted DD as a core piece.

My statement was accurate (pretty much the only core players are Lowry, JV,Bruno)

The problem with small changes, is that this team isn't plagued by small issues. There are major problems at its core that need to be fixed, and therefor drastic changes are called for.

For example: for years we have been a soft, poor defensive team that has been inefficient and unable to close games. For the vast majority of the last 4 years we have been those teams by featuring DD on the perimeter. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

You want to change the way the team plays and the perception of the team, but are unwilling to change the major players who make up said team. We can do small changes (ie end of bench turnover - Colangelo style), but they wont change anything. You need to change the core pieces to change the actual core.

Moving to a player like JV who is a team first guy who plays hard every minute he is on the court is a good step in that direction. However, he will never have the spotlight until DD is gone, and possibly Lowry as well. Though I made the decision to keep Lowry based on the principal that a combo of Lowry and JV will still make us a playoff bound team in the East. And winning breeds winning for the young guys we hope to draft

*I am using DD as the example

[Joey]

Well we established that pretty much the only core players we have are Lowry and JV, with Bruno potentially being one.

Who's we? I certainly never did. Lol I absolutely consider Demar to be a key part going forward; especially if we consider Lowry a keeper. Why keep Lowry if not with the hope to be successful. If we're tanking, then tank and trade everything, but there's no point in keeping Lowry if we're literally trading everyone else. By the time we would be even remotely competitive again, Lowry would be long past his prime.

I consider you're proposal far too drastic a change without first seeing what the smaller changes I suggested will grant us.

[OldSkoolCool]

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I think it depends on how one defines "patience".
I'd say there are still plenty of big moves that could be made without dismantling the core group of players, and I think we have to consider all of those options to improve our team before simply trading away all our more-or-less 'proven' assets for younger 'unproven' ones, or start making Colangelo-style splashy trades just for the sake of moving sideways.
If we somehow managed to find a Coach that could come in and find those small tweaks, ala Kerr, that allow all of players to play to their strengths, I think that is a move that could vault us half a step closer. If we could then add a key contributor via Free Agency or Masai-being-Masai, then again, I think we take another step toward being Legit Contenders.

So while I'm all in for making moves, and altering the status quo, I think 'Patience' can still be something that is also an asset moving forward with certain players.

Well we established that pretty much the only core players we have are Lowry and JV, with Bruno potentially being one.

Please no Colangelo trades. Personally I would like MU to trade into future drafts as much as possible. (BCo traded out)

Free agency doesn't concern me unless it is KD or some fantastic name like that. We can build through the draft easily enough.

And yes a new coach is needed to actually play young guys.

Looking at our roster, we could potentially get 3-4 first round picks over the next few years (DD - 2, Patterson - 1, Ross - 1)

Let the rest of the roster expire this season. Trade GV for anything not-GV. Perhaps a Reggie Bullock type...

Go into the offseason with

JV
Lowry
Bruno
Bebe
Trade filler from acquiring picks
Picks

New Coach

Instead of slowly adapting to a culture shift. Radically change it and put the responsibilities on JV. This will create a dynamic shift in the organization and build from there.

Have to tear down walls to build new one. It sucks, but it should have been done already. Just delaying the inevitable.

[Joey]

Time for patience is over

We keep expecting this team to break out of the Raptors mold of old, yet don't make any significant changes. Insanity I say

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I think it depends on how one defines "patience".
I'd say there are still plenty of big moves that could be made without dismantling the core group of players, and I think we have to consider all of those options to improve our team before simply trading away all our more-or-less 'proven' assets for younger 'unproven' ones, or start making Colangelo-style splashy trades just for the sake of moving sideways.
If we somehow managed to find a Coach that could come in and find those small tweaks, ala Kerr, that allow all of players to play to their strengths, I think that is a move that could vault us half a step closer. If we could then add a key contributor via Free Agency or Masai-being-Masai, then again, I think we take another step toward being Legit Contenders.

So while I'm all in for making moves, and altering the status quo, I think 'Patience' can still be something that is also an asset moving forward with certain players.

[OldSkoolCool]

Care to elaborate? Lol

Time for patience is over

We keep expecting this team to break out of the Raptors mold of old, yet don't make any significant changes. Insanity I say

[rocwell]

Glad to see Masai still believes in what's getting done. It's process we haven't gotten there yet. Patience people.

You're correct sir! Patience is needed! Even though Even though Raps stats look like S&P 500 chart from 2008, but as we know, investors with patience got rewarded! Same thing will happen to the Raptors. Don't change anything, let this team GO DOWN as long as possible and then BOOM, we'll get a ring. It's all planned.

[Joey]

Wrong

Care to elaborate? Lol

[Joey]

Toronto fans of any sport tend toward an intelligent appreciation of the game. It's not just a reason for a tailgate party. We love our sports.

Still doesn't explain Leaf Fans for me. LOL

[mcHAPPY]

Did Masai tell you differently?

His comments are right up there with the trade deadline comments of, "we are confident in this roster and don't feel the need to make a trade." (Paraphrased)

[Chr1s1anL]

Wrong

Did Masai tell you differently?

[OldSkoolCool]

Glad to see Masai still believes in what's getting done. It's process we haven't gotten there yet. Patience people.

Wrong

[Chr1s1anL]

Glad to see Masai still believes in what's getting done. It's process we haven't gotten there yet. Patience people.

[Pele]

Toronto fans of any sport tend toward an intelligent appreciation of the game. It's not just a reason for a tailgate party. We love our sports.

[hotfuzz]

^ Basically, he's not expecting the team to do much in the playoffs.

[Scraptor]

This sounds to me like an executive preemptively trying to manage expectations in advance of disappointment.

Also, "there is no way to learn how to win, but to win", "when we're losing... they're hurting, that's a good start", "if guys go out and fight...", sounds like he thinks that talent is less of an issue than motivation. Which combined with his comments about the "real" Raptors team being the one from earlier in the season makes me question whether he is just bs-ing the media or if he is overrating the talent on this team.

If we lose I doubt it'll be because our guys "didn't want it enough."