Where do you rate DD among the two's in the NBA?

[DogeLover1234]

One thing that really bothers me about DeRozan is how horrible his accuracy is. For a guy who attempts almost 17 shots per game, there is nobody else nearly as low of a shooting percentage as DeRozan, and that's not just this season. DeMar DeRozan is literally making history here.

There are a total of 5 players in the history of the game who has shot 41% or lower while averaging more than 16 field goal attempts per game. DeMar DeRozan, Deron Williams, Paul Pierce, Jamal Crawford (twice) and Stephen Jackson. Of these, only Stephen Jackson and DeRozan were playing on a winning team. That's because when you do something like that (attempt a whole bunch of shots and shoot horribly), it's detrimental towards winning games.

Now you might say DeRozan gets to the line a lot, so we should consider TS% since it accounts for free throws. Well, DeRozan is top 5 in FTA but averaging just 50.6 TS%. Going back to the NBA history books, looking at guards only, DeRozan is just amongst 4 others again who averaged below 51% TS and shot the ball 16+ times per game -- Vince Carter, Jason Richardson, Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford. Again, no winning teams amongst those occurrences.

Dont have time to check this, but is their record above 500 with DD? They won a lot of games when he was injured right? They have lost a lot of games recently, so i wouldnt be surprised if that canceled out their hot start

[DanH]

We started 13-3 with DD and are 20-20 since he came back. That's 33-23. Without him we were 12-9. No adjustment for difficulty of schedule there.

[DanH]

That's a 59% winning rate versus a 57% winning rate. Not much difference, but again with the small sample without him strength of schedule could play a big factor. Not sure which way it would go though, haven't checked.

[DogeLover1234]

That's a 59% winning rate versus a 57% winning rate. Not much difference, but again with the small sample without him strength of schedule could play a big factor. Not sure which way it would go though, haven't checked.

Thanks for checking! Still wonder which month is most telling of this teams level of play. I guess we will find out in the playoffs

[OldSkoolCool]

might as well add Lebron, Melo, Rudy Gay if you included SFs like Hayward, Ariza and Parsons. Wiggins will be SF too.

Definitely LeBron.

There really is no difference between the 2 and 3 positions in the modern NBA

[DDelight]

Team system matters. Put Korver or Reddick on our team and all we have is 2 SG and SF starters who just stand at the 3 point line chucking up 3s in Ross + Korver OR Reddick. That does not improve this Raptors team. Our defense will still be bad and our offense would drop because our offense would not allow either Korver or Reddick to flourish as well as they do on their current teams. You need a player to be able to break down the defense and get to the basket, not just 2 wings standing behind the 3 point line hoping their shot is on tonight.

And to list SFs in this discussion is silly. Size makes a huge difference in this league. DWade and LeBron are interchangeable in their ability to play the 2 or 3? It's clear you either didn't know people you were naming were SFs or you knew and blatantly included them in there just inflate the number of names you could "toss" out there as being better than DeMar.

[The Great One]

Team system matters. Put Korver or Reddick on our team and all we have is 2 SG and SF starters who just stand at the 3 point line chucking up 3s in Ross + Korver OR Reddick. That does not improve this Raptors team. Our defense will still be bad and our offense would drop because our offense would not allow either Korver or Reddick to flourish as well as they do on their current teams. You need a player to be able to break down the defense and get to the basket, not just 2 wings standing behind the 3 point line hoping their shot is on tonight.

And to list SFs in this discussion is silly. Size makes a huge difference in this league. DWade and LeBron are interchangeable in their ability to play the 2 or 3? It's clear you either didn't know people you were naming were SFs or you knew and blatantly included them in there just inflate the number of names you could "toss" out there as being better than DeMar.

That's exactly it lol.

The guy is a serious DeRozan hater. It's pretty obvious now.

Just one thing OldSkoolCool, if there's not much difference between the 2 and 3 in today's NBA. I guess you're now ok with Ross playing the 3? weren't you whining about that just last year? how he should be playing the 2 because he doesn't have the size of a 3?

Another question, do you still think Ross is a better player than DeRozan? and do you still think he's the Raptors future 2 guard? sorry can't help lol! That's what i think of whenever i see you posts here!

[Fully]

Ben Mclemore. Heh.

[The Great One]

But back to the original topic. I'd put DeMar in the top 7-10 range.

[DogeLover1234]

That's exactly it lol.

The guy is a serious DeRozan hater. It's pretty obvious now.

Just one thing OldSkoolCool, if there's not much difference between the 2 and 3 in today's NBA. I guess you're now ok with Ross playing the 3? weren't you whining about that just last year? how he should be playing the 2 because he doesn't have the size of a 3?

Another question, do you still think Ross is a better player than DeRozan? and do you still think he's the Raptors future 2 guard? sorry can't help lol! That's what i think of whenever i see you posts here!

What do you think the difference is between a sg and a sf? they play pretty much the same role. Ross is better at defending smaller wing players so that is why it is challenging to pair dd and ross on D if there is a bigger wing player.

[OldSkoolCool]

Team system matters. Put Korver or Reddick on our team and all we have is 2 SG and SF starters who just stand at the 3 point line chucking up 3s in Ross + Korver OR Reddick. That does not improve this Raptors team. Our defense will still be bad and our offense would drop because our offense would not allow either Korver or Reddick to flourish as well as they do on their current teams. You need a player to be able to break down the defense and get to the basket, not just 2 wings standing behind the 3 point line hoping their shot is on tonight.

And to list SFs in this discussion is silly. Size makes a huge difference in this league. DWade and LeBron are interchangeable in their ability to play the 2 or 3? It's clear you either didn't know people you were naming were SFs or you knew and blatantly included them in there just inflate the number of names you could "toss" out there as being better than DeMar.

So what you're saying is that in a proper system to utilize a player like Korver or Reddick, you need a second ball handler to break down the defenses? Because that perfectly describes Barnes and Carroll doesn't it...

You need initial penetration from your PG (Paul/Teague), then good ball movement.

DD doesn't see the next pass, and isn't exactly good at getting into the paint and making a pass...so he wouldn't fit either.

That's exactly it lol.

The guy is a serious DeRozan hater. It's pretty obvious now.

Just one thing OldSkoolCool, if there's not much difference between the 2 and 3 in today's NBA. I guess you're now ok with Ross playing the 3? weren't you whining about that just last year? how he should be playing the 2 because he doesn't have the size of a 3?

Another question, do you still think Ross is a better player than DeRozan? and do you still think he's the Raptors future 2 guard? sorry can't help lol! That's what i think of whenever i see you posts here!

I wasn't on that train btw

Ben Mclemore. Heh.

Yup. Based mostly on potential, though he has shown flashes. Mostly the Kings are a disaster due to Vivek, so we can expect that 3 different coaches in a season may not work best for production.

[The Great One]

What do you think the difference is between a sg and a sf? they play pretty much the same role. Ross is better at defending smaller wing players so that is why it is challenging to pair dd and ross on D if there is a bigger wing player.

Size.

Prototypical SG usually is 6'6. Prototpical SF usually is 6'8-6'9.

[DDelight]

So what you're saying is that in a proper system to utilize a player like Korver or Reddick, you need a second ball handler to break down the defenses? Because that perfectly describes Barnes and Carroll doesn't it...

You need initial penetration from your PG (Paul/Teague), then good ball movement.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. And therefore if you replace DeRozan who does all that with with Korver or Reddick who NEED DeRozan to do that while they stand at the 3 point line, we would be worse. Ross doesn't have the ability to break down the defense to get those guys the ball. We'd basically have to rely on Kyle who hasn't done that good a job of it. Since Lowry has been out, DeMar has been the primary guy breaking down the defense and kicking the ball out to GV, Ross, and Patterson.

You realize your post actually just proved my point in why those guys would be worse on our team because they wouldnt have a Carroll or Barnes-like player with DeMar gone right?

[DogeLover1234]

Size.

Prototypical SG usually is 6'6. Prototpical SF usually is 6'8-6'9.

Thats fairly meaningless to me. If there is no difference in required skill then those two positions can be compared and they are virtually the same.

[DogeLover1234]

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. And therefore if you replace DeRozan who does all that with with Korver or Reddick who NEED DeRozan to do that while they stand at the 3 point line, we would be worse. Ross doesn't have the ability to break down the defense to get those guys the ball. We'd basically have to rely on Kyle who hasn't done that good a job of it. Since Lowry has been out, DeMar has been the primary guy breaking down the defense and kicking the ball out to GV, Ross, and Patterson.

You realize your post actually just proved my point in why those guys would be worse on our team because they wouldnt have a Carroll or Barnes-like player with DeMar gone right?

I think you misinterpreted what he said. He said that the other wing player doesnt break the defense down, the pg is the one who breaks the defense down on those teams. And actually reddick is a lot more than just a 3 pt shooter