Everything 2024 Off-season

[DanH]

I see I see. I guess I didn’t realize the gap between Gradey and Gary defensively was that big. I do think that no matter what they should leave Scottie at the backline defensively. If we have to get beat on the perimeter so be it.

I agree with this sentiment but Scottie doesn't, he'll force his way to the point of attack to defend it if we can't find someone else who will.

[Primer]

I agree with this sentiment but Scottie doesn't, he'll force his way to the point of attack to defend it if we can't find someone else who will.

Gradey should never be the POA defender and neither should Gary. IQ and RJ need to handle it. Our expectations should be a lot higher for them than they are for the 5th starter. IQ is getting paid like a borderline star he needs to play like one. I think he's perfectly capable, as is RJ, so I'm not worried. If it's Gradey as 5th starter he's there to help the offense and should be getting the easiest assignment on defense, definitely not playing POA.

[DanH]

Gradey should never be the POA defender and neither should Gary. IQ and RJ need to handle it. Our expectations should be a lot higher for them than they are for the 5th starter. IQ is getting paid like a borderline star he needs to play like one. I think he's perfectly capable, as is RJ, so I'm not worried. If it's Gradey as 5th starter he's there to help the offense and should be getting the easiest assignment on defense, definitely not playing POA.

Well there's always more than one POA. If Gradey is hiding on a standstill shooter, that's one less non-creator Scottie can play help and recover off of. Gary for all his faults usually was assigned to defend someone who would be handling the ball, even if not the primary option. Gradey being able to handle even that would be a big leap from last year.

I agree that IQ and RJ get the first two POA assignments, but you usually need to cover a third option. If that's Gradey, we'll get shredded, probably, though we can definitely hope for a leap. Barring said leap, Scottie will probably insist on being that 3rd POA defender, which will hurt our defence too, as he's so valuable in help.

Like, consider our team. Opponents need someone to cover Scottie, someone to cover IQ, and someone to cover RJ. 3 different sources of primary creation/attack from the perimeter. It's not a particularly rare setup.

[Primer]

Well there's always more than one POA. If Gradey is hiding on a standstill shooter, that's one less non-creator Scottie can play help and recover off of. Gary for all his faults usually was assigned to defend someone who would be handling the ball, even if not the primary option. Gradey being able to handle even that would be a big leap from last year.

I agree that IQ and RJ get the first two POA assignments, but you usually need to cover a third option. If that's Gradey, we'll get shredded, probably, though we can definitely hope for a leap. Barring said leap, Scottie will probably insist on being that 3rd POA defender, which will hurt our defence too, as he's so valuable in help.

Like, consider our team. Opponents need someone to cover Scottie, someone to cover IQ, and someone to cover RJ. 3 different sources of primary creation/attack from the perimeter. It's not a particularly rare setup.

Then Scottie will help on the 3rd POA and still be mostly available for help defense. I don't want him non existent in POA defense. Just like I wouldn't want Kawhi non existent in POA defense.

[DanH]

Then Scottie will help on the 3rd POA and still be mostly available for help defense. I don't want him non existent in POA defense. Just like I wouldn't want Kawhi non existent in POA defense.

OK well we differ so very much on this. Kawhi was elite as a POA defender. Scottie is very not. His defensive strength lies almost entirely in off ball stuff. I want zero Scottie POA stuff when we can avoid it. If we are stuck with a switch so be it but we should start zero possessions with Scottie as a POA defender.

[planetmars]

OK well we differ so very much on this. Kawhi was elite as a POA defender. Scottie is very not. His defensive strength lies almost entirely in off ball stuff. I want zero Scottie POA stuff when we can avoid it. If we are stuck with a switch so be it but we should start zero possessions with Scottie as a POA defender.

There is definitely a personnel issue there. We never did get a big wing player this summer and that will likely be a guy they need to keep trying to find. In the meantime I think they will give Gradey as much as he can handle and even try to be the POA defender at times. If he sucks, and we're bleeding points, yet want to win, they will sub in a guy like Brown or Ochai or even Mitchell to give them something different.

But Gradey for better or worse is going to command 30+ mpg, and a lot with the starters so he can be a weapon for Scottie and Jak (and likely RJ if his last season was a blip). The starting unit needs 3pt shooting and movement as much as it needs POA defenders. And Dick is the best bet to give them that.

[planetmars]

he aint lowry

So you also don't believe guys can't improve later on in their careers? Kyle was just an example. He went from being a 27% shooter to a 40%+ shooter.

Mitchell gave us a glimpse of that last year as he shot over 40% since January last season.

[DanH]

There is definitely a personnel issue there. We never did get a big wing player this summer and that will likely be a guy they need to keep trying to find. In the meantime I think they will give Gradey as much as he can handle and even try to be the POA defender at times. If he sucks, and we're bleeding points, yet want to win, they will sub in a guy like Brown or Ochai or even Mitchell to give them something different.

But Gradey for better or worse is going to command 30+ mpg, and a lot with the starters so he can be a weapon for Scottie and Jak (and likely RJ if his last season was a blip). The starting unit needs 3pt shooting and movement as much as it needs POA defenders. And Dick is the best bet to give them that.

I think there will prove to be a bigger problem getting the starters to work defensively than offensively. So even if Gradey is the best weapon on the offensive end for them, the benefit of that will likely be far outmatched by the negative effects on the other end.

But you are right, there are no correct answers on the roster right now, barring a leap from somewhere.

Gradey may well get 30 minutes. I doubt he'll be commanding them...

[planetmars]

I think there will prove to be a bigger problem getting the starters to work defensively than offensively. So even if Gradey is the best weapon on the offensive end for them, the benefit of that will likely be far outmatched by the negative effects on the other end.

But you are right, there are no correct answers on the roster right now, barring a leap from somewhere.

Gradey may well get 30 minutes. I doubt he'll be commanding them...

I have this feeling that the front office (and by association Darko) is going to work real hard to prioritize Gradey's development over winning next season. That may change the season after next. But their actions this past off season have shown me that they don't care if they lose a bunch of games again. And Dick will be a priority since he was taken in the lottery.

I could be reading this entirely wrong. But that's how I see it.

[LJ2]

I have this feeling that the front office (and by association Darko) is going to work real hard to prioritize Gradey's development over winning next season. That may change the season after next. But their actions this past off season have shown me that they don't care if they lose a bunch of games again. And Dick will be a priority since he was taken in the lottery.

I could be reading this entirely wrong. But that's how I see it.

They won't really have to work real hard to prioritize Gradey's development. He's going to get plenty of mins over the course of the season, so much so that it's not going to matter if he starts or comes off the bench.

Raps can sell the idea they want to win now as much as they want, but they have to know they don't have the talent to contend and need to draft a future star.

[planetmars]

They won't really have to work real hard to prioritize Gradey's development. He's going to get plenty of mins over the course of the season, so much so that it's not going to matter if he starts or comes off the bench.

Raps can sell the idea they want to win now as much as they want, but they have to know they don't have the talent to contend and need to draft a future star.

I'm in agreement.

I'm just talking about the starting unit, or let's reframe that and go most used 5-man lineup.

To win games, you want to use your best 5-man lineup most often (which is also usually the starting unit since they play against other starting units, or other team's best lineup). If Gradey is helping hemorrhage points on the defensive end, and makes the best 5-man lineup he's a part of worse than it can theoretically be without him, a team that's trying to win games would stop doing that. Yet, I think they would continue to use it to help develop Gradey into a better player, even if it means they miss the play-offs.

Gradey on a personal level would look a lot better next to Scottie and Jak than he would next to Brown and Kelly for instance. In my opinion, his personal development will be more important than the teams overall performance.

[JawsGT]

I'm in agreement.

I'm just talking about the starting unit, or let's reframe that and go most used 5-man lineup.

To win games, you want to use your best 5-man lineup most often (which is also usually the starting unit since they play against other starting units, or other team's best lineup). If Gradey is helping hemorrhage points on the defensive end, and makes the best 5-man lineup he's a part of worse than it can theoretically be without him, a team that's trying to win games would stop doing that. Yet, I think they would continue to use it to help develop Gradey into a better player, even if it means they miss the play-offs.

Gradey on a personal level would look a lot better next to Scottie and Jak than he would next to Brown and Kelly for instance. In my opinion, his personal development will be more important than the teams overall performance.

I hope this is the approach. Play Gradey now with the best players as much as possible so he is better next year and the year after. That doesn't necessarily mean he has to start, but he should imo given the rest of the roster. They haven't acquired anyone that should bump him from that opportunity. Brown, for me, is an afterthought. He should play, limited minutes, from the bench and get more minutes and/or a starting opportunity if he plays much much better than he did last season for this team or if they desperately need to shake up the starting unit because Gradey can't handle it. I'd probably try a few others on this roster with the starting unit before giving Brown the chance. He has no future here and they shouldn't be the least bit concerned about his playing time. If he really steps up and the team is actually competing and winning games, then so be it, play him as much as needed if we're winning and he is clearly helping that happen. I doubt that happens though, because he got his fat bag for this season and knows he's going to be somewhere else next season anyways.

[LJ2]

I'm in agreement.

I'm just talking about the starting unit, or let's reframe that and go most used 5-man lineup.

To win games, you want to use your best 5-man lineup most often (which is also usually the starting unit since they play against other starting units, or other team's best lineup). If Gradey is helping hemorrhage points on the defensive end, and makes the best 5-man lineup he's a part of worse than it can theoretically be without him, a team that's trying to win games would stop doing that. Yet, I think they would continue to use it to help develop Gradey into a better player, even if it means they miss the play-offs.

Gradey on a personal level would look a lot better next to Scottie and Jak than he would next to Brown and Kelly for instance. In my opinion, his personal development will be more important than the teams overall performance.

That's what I mean though. At some point it doesn't make a difference if you are getting for example 34 mins as a starter or 32 mins off the bench. Your development plateaus at a certain point and those two extra mins a game doesn't really make a difference. Especially since playing with the starters means he's not going to get as many shots up or be put in scenarios where the ball is going to be in his hands. If your focus is on developing Gradey then it may be better off if a bunch of his mins are not with starters.

[Primer]

That's what I mean though. At some point it doesn't make a difference if you are getting for example 34 mins as a starter or 32 mins off the bench. Your development plateaus at a certain point and those two extra mins a game doesn't really make a difference. Especially since playing with the starters means he's not going to get as many shots up or be put in scenarios where the ball is going to be in his hands. If your focus is on developing Gradey then it may be better off if a bunch of his mins are not with starters.

The goal is to develop Gradey into the 5th starter with this exact group. BBQ + Jak. So, I vehemently disagree that the best way to develop him is to not play him in that lineup. We aren't trying to develop him into a 1st option on offense or a microwave scorer (Gary), we're trying to develop him into a movement shooter who compliments the other 4 starters. I think the best thing we can do is start him and start building chemistry with the main starting 4.

[LJ2]

The goal is to develop Gradey into the 5th starter with this exact group. BBQ + Jak. So, I vehemently disagree that the best way to develop him is to not play him in that lineup. We aren't trying to develop him into a 1st option on offense or a microwave scorer (Gary), we're trying to develop him into a movement shooter who compliments the other 4 starters. I think the best thing we can do is start him and start building chemistry with the main starting 4.

No, we don't know if the goal is to develop Gradey into the 5th starter with this group. The most obvious reason for that should be that a starting unit of IQ, Gradey, RG, Scottie and Jak looks flat out like a poor defense. IQ and Gradey guard the most difficult positions in the league to guard?

And what's wrong with seeing what Gradey can do on offense? They put the ball in his hands a lot during SL so clearly they're giving him the chance to develop into more than just a shooter. Remember Darko wants everyone to be able to put the ball on the floor and attack, pass, shoot. Not just do one thing. He'll get plenty of mins with the starters over the course of a season so I'm not worried at all about him building chemistry.