Everything 2024 Off-season

[chris]

If Pat Riley is smart. And I think he is. He should trade Butler and completely tank next year.

If you're a middle of the pack team. You should tank. Because from everything that I've read so far, next year's draft is looking like an all timer. Think 1984 and 2003.

miami tanked egregiously for derrick rose and were rewarded with michael beasley. they haven't tanked since even when it made overwhelming sense to do so, so i'd guess pat riley doesn't consider it part of their culture.

also makes less sense in the parity era when a middle of the pack team, like miami was last year, can make the finals, like miami did last year.

the key though is not to go all in on a team like that and lock in to a core long term that needed some luck to make it that far. that's prob why they're looking to move him

[planetmars]

Why would Miami do that trade?

Middleton has averaged only 15 ppg the past 2 seasons.

They would be way better off just keeping Butler.

If they deal him it would be for picks or a young player like Mitchell.

He averaged 25ppg in the playoffs. Butler is old, and he's looking for a big contract. I think Milwaukee would give it to him. They are desperate to keep Giannis happy and were a first round flame out.

If Jimmy is on the market I think Milwaukee tries to get him. They don't have a lot of assets but Middleton's contract.

For the Heat they want to win. Mitchell will be who they want the most, but he could just resign with Cleveland. They fired their coach for him.

[Primer]

He averaged 25ppg in the playoffs. Butler is old, and he's looking for a big contract. I think Milwaukee would give it to him. They are desperate to keep Giannis happy and were a first round flame out.

If Jimmy is on the market I think Milwaukee tries to get him. They don't have a lot of assets but Middleton's contract.

For the Heat they want to win. Mitchell will be who they want the most, but he could just resign with Cleveland. They fired their coach for him.

The bold is why the trade idea makes zero sense for Miami. Jimmy is not a negative asset to be dumped. They could get a much better return than Middleton.

[planetmars]

The bold is why the trade idea makes zero sense for Miami. Jimmy is not a negative asset to be dumped. They could get a much better return than Middleton.

From where? I like Jimmy but he wants a max contract at his age. He has one season left and a player option. Its the reason why the Heat want to move him since he's not worth that to him.

But he would be to a team like the Bucks. I can't really think of too many teams that would take on Jimmy at his age, for the number of games he plays a season and for the contract he wants. Maybe Philly but I think they too would want someone younger to fit next to Maxey long term.

Miami will try to get a lot.. but Kris Middleton is not a bad return. He's a pretty reliable playoff threat. He's a 2-way wing that can slot right in, and can shoot 3's.

[Primer]

From where? I like Jimmy but he wants a max contract at his age. He has one season left and a player option. Its the reason why the Heat want to move him since he's not worth that to him.

But he would be to a team like the Bucks. I can't really think of too many teams that would take on Jimmy at his age, for the number of games he plays a season and for the contract he wants. Maybe Philly but I think they too would want someone younger to fit next to Maxey long term.

Miami will try to get a lot.. but Kris Middleton is not a bad return. He's a pretty reliable playoff threat. He's a 2-way wing that can slot right in, and can shoot 3's.

There is no legit source saying the Heat want to move Jimmy. It's just some random speculation that honestly doesn't make much sense unless the return is a future piece like Mitchell. Miami is in win now mode and Jimmy >>>>>>> Middleton. Middleton is also old and overpaid, he's probably the last player Miami would be looking to take back as the "prize" in a Jimmy trade.

Philly absolutely 100% would love to trade for Jimmy Butler, and they have way better assets to trade than the Bucks and have cap space so they don't need to send much if any salary back. Jimmy for Ricky Council works straight up. Toss in some picks and Miami clears all that cap and gets a young player and picks, that's a better return than Middleton.

There are a ton of teams that would be interested in trading for Jimmy, and most have better assets than the Bucks.

[Primer]

Playing around with more Jimmy trade ideas.

To the Knicks for Randle and Bogdanovic. Much better return than Middleton. Makes sense for both teams.

To the Lakers for Reeves, Rui, Vincent, and JHS. Makes sense for both teams and much better return than Middleton.

To Orlando for Isaac and prospects + picks. I'm sure Orlando would rather have Jimmy than Klay. They got cap space so don't need to send back much (doesn't need to be Isaac, take your pick of guys from Orlando).

To Atlanta for Trae Young. A swap that makes some sense for both teams. Better return than Middleton.

To the Nets for Simmons and picks. Big expiring so they clear cap and they get a bunch of draft capital. Plus the allure of "maybe we can fix Simmons".

To the Nuggets for Porter Jr and Nnaji. Nuggets get to make an upgrade for another title run. Heat get back 2 younger players under cost control.

To the Pelicans for Ingram and Nance. Pelicans mix things up to try and get over the hump. Heat get back a much better return than Middleton.

To the Kings for Barnes, Huerter, Mitchell and picks. Kings get an upgrade to go deeper in the playoffs, Miami gets back some good younger depth players and draft picks.

To the Warriors for Paul, Kuminga, Moddy, and Santos. Heat get back some promising young players, Warriors add a Klay replacement who helps their playoff chances.

Tons of options better than Middleton.

[3inthekeon]

If Pat Riley is smart. And I think he is. He should trade Butler and completely tank next year.

If you're a middle of the pack team. You should tank. Because from everything that I've read so far, next year's draft is looking like an all timer. Think 1984 and 2003.

This is true from a lot of fans perspectives. But how many team owners feel that way? I would guess zero. And they are the ones who make the final decision. Most owners primary goals are making year-to-year profit and especially raising the value of their franchise, with winning championships a secondary goal. And no owners goal is to try to win by tanking.

Most owners will pay some tax if the team is a true contender. There are a few like Lacob who are willing to pay massive amounts even if the team is middle of the pack. But most aren't. If you have a middle of the pack team that's gotten really expensive, some owners can be convinced to tear down, like Ainge did with Smith in Utah. But most will expect their FO's to thread the needle by cutting costs and still try to contend until tanking is pretty well forced.

Don't think Micky Arison has any desire to tank, no matter how good the upcoming draft may be.

[planetmars]

Playing around with more Jimmy trade ideas.

To the Knicks for Randle and Bogdanovic. Much better return than Middleton. Makes sense for both teams.

To the Lakers for Reeves, Rui, Vincent, and JHS. Makes sense for both teams and much better return than Middleton.

To Orlando for Isaac and prospects + picks. I'm sure Orlando would rather have Jimmy than Klay. They got cap space so don't need to send back much (doesn't need to be Isaac, take your pick of guys from Orlando).

To Atlanta for Trae Young. A swap that makes some sense for both teams. Better return than Middleton.

To the Nets for Simmons and picks. Big expiring so they clear cap and they get a bunch of draft capital. Plus the allure of "maybe we can fix Simmons".

To the Nuggets for Porter Jr and Nnaji. Nuggets get to make an upgrade for another title run. Heat get back 2 younger players under cost control.

To the Pelicans for Ingram and Nance. Pelicans mix things up to try and get over the hump. Heat get back a much better return than Middleton.

To the Kings for Barnes, Huerter, Mitchell and picks. Kings get an upgrade to go deeper in the playoffs, Miami gets back some good younger depth players and draft picks.

To the Warriors for Paul, Kuminga, Moddy, and Santos. Heat get back some promising young players, Warriors add a Klay replacement who helps their playoff chances.

Tons of options better than Middleton.

We're talking about a 35 year old Jimmy that wants a max contract after next season. So if a team only wants him for one season they are not going to give up a lot. If they want to keep him after next year at a max contract then they would have to be okay doing that for a 35 year old (in September) who will be turning 36 (when he wants his next max deal).

Of the teams you listed.. I would easily knock off Atlanta, New Orleans, Sacramento.

Then there are teams trying to save money not add. So would knock off the Warriors and Nuggets.

Knicks don't want to trade Randle. If he was available then yes that's a fit.

Lakers probably would do it.. but they would also be giving up lots of depth. I don't know if they want Jimmy though after next year considering Lebron might retire as well.

Orlando could be in a cap crunch when Suggs and Fultz get paid.. and then Banchero a year after. And also paying Jimmy what he wants. Klay won't come in for the max so easier to absorb there.

Miami won't want Simmons - he doesn't even like playing. Miami has a certain culture and Simmons would be the worse get for what they believe in as a team.


So NY (if they are willing to move Randle) and LA are the other two options I can see as fits. Rest not really.

Of course you could gamble that Jimmy could be had for less than a max at 36. But if Miami is giving up on him considering what he's done for that club then that likely means Jimmy's camp is not budging. And some team out there will give him what he wants. Even if its a Pistons or Hornets team.

I just think the Bucks would be that team. Since they would be so desperate to hang on to Giannis and double down after giving up Holiday for Dame.

Middleton + Connaughton and their 2024 pick for Jimmy is I think a trade both sides could agree to. Assuming Mitchell stays with the Cavs and the relationship between Jimmy and Miami is not salvageable.

Another team I would throw up there is Chicago. If they can keep DeMar. They could maybe do a S&T with Pat Williams (up to him) going to Miami with some other pieces and Jimmy going back to Chicago. But I'm not sure if he would want to go back there.

[planetmars]

The bold is why the trade idea makes zero sense for Miami. Jimmy is not a negative asset to be dumped. They could get a much better return than Middleton.

Miami is also thinking about their cap. Every team is. Jimmy wants to be paid and the reason there is even any animosity is that the Heat are not wanting to give Jimmy the extension that he wants.

So they have to consider that.. but if they give Jimmy for cap space (ie, let him walk).. they can't easily use that cap space either as they are a team that likes operating above the cap.

No Middleton is not the perfect player. But he's a fit. He plays the wing. Is a consistent playoff performer. And he's a 2-way player that can shoot. I think Middleton is exactly the type of player Miami could fit in seamlessly. He's 32 (turning 33 in August). It's older but not old-old.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Playing around with more Jimmy trade ideas.

To the Knicks for Randle and Bogdanovic. Much better return than Middleton. Makes sense for both teams.

To the Lakers for Reeves, Rui, Vincent, and JHS. Makes sense for both teams and much better return than Middleton.

To Orlando for Isaac and prospects + picks. I'm sure Orlando would rather have Jimmy than Klay. They got cap space so don't need to send back much (doesn't need to be Isaac, take your pick of guys from Orlando).

To Atlanta for Trae Young. A swap that makes some sense for both teams. Better return than Middleton.

To the Nets for Simmons and picks. Big expiring so they clear cap and they get a bunch of draft capital. Plus the allure of "maybe we can fix Simmons".

To the Nuggets for Porter Jr and Nnaji. Nuggets get to make an upgrade for another title run. Heat get back 2 younger players under cost control.

To the Pelicans for Ingram and Nance. Pelicans mix things up to try and get over the hump. Heat get back a much better return than Middleton.

To the Kings for Barnes, Huerter, Mitchell and picks. Kings get an upgrade to go deeper in the playoffs, Miami gets back some good younger depth players and draft picks.

To the Warriors for Paul, Kuminga, Moddy, and Santos. Heat get back some promising young players, Warriors add a Klay replacement who helps their playoff chances.

Tons of options better than Middleton.

cant wait till atl fans accept that trae needs to go

[Primer]

We're talking about a 35 year old Jimmy that wants a max contract after next season. So if a team only wants him for one season they are not going to give up a lot. If they want to keep him after next year at a max contract then they would have to be okay doing that for a 35 year old (in September) who will be turning 36 (when he wants his next max deal).

Of the teams you listed.. I would easily knock off Atlanta, New Orleans, Sacramento.

Then there are teams trying to save money not add. So would knock off the Warriors and Nuggets.

Knicks don't want to trade Randle. If he was available then yes that's a fit.

Lakers probably would do it.. but they would also be giving up lots of depth. I don't know if they want Jimmy though after next year considering Lebron might retire as well.

Orlando could be in a cap crunch when Suggs and Fultz get paid.. and then Banchero a year after. And also paying Jimmy what he wants. Klay won't come in for the max so easier to absorb there.

Miami won't want Simmons - he doesn't even like playing. Miami has a certain culture and Simmons would be the worse get for what they believe in as a team.


So NY (if they are willing to move Randle) and LA are the other two options I can see as fits. Rest not really.

Of course you could gamble that Jimmy could be had for less than a max at 36. But if Miami is giving up on him considering what he's done for that club then that likely means Jimmy's camp is not budging. And some team out there will give him what he wants. Even if its a Pistons or Hornets team.

I just think the Bucks would be that team. Since they would be so desperate to hang on to Giannis and double down after giving up Holiday for Dame.

Middleton + Connaughton and their 2024 pick for Jimmy is I think a trade both sides could agree to. Assuming Mitchell stays with the Cavs and the relationship between Jimmy and Miami is not salvageable.

Another team I would throw up there is Chicago. If they can keep DeMar. They could maybe do a S&T with Pat Williams (up to him) going to Miami with some other pieces and Jimmy going back to Chicago. But I'm not sure if he would want to go back there.

Then freaking keep Jimmy. Why in the hell would they want Middleton? Why? You can clear his cap with Philly and take nothing back if they think Jimmy Butler is a toxic asset worthy of cap cleaning.

Why would Miami want Middleton instead of pure cap space?

Butler is worth a ton not crap.

[Primer]

Miami is also thinking about their cap. Every team is. Jimmy wants to be paid and the reason there is even any animosity is that the Heat are not wanting to give Jimmy the extension that he wants.

So they have to consider that.. but if they give Jimmy for cap space (ie, let him walk).. they can't easily use that cap space either as they are a team that likes operating above the cap.

No Middleton is not the perfect player. But he's a fit. He plays the wing. Is a consistent playoff performer. And he's a 2-way player that can shoot. I think Middleton is exactly the type of player Miami could fit in seamlessly. He's 32 (turning 33 in August). It's older but not old-old.

Fit for what?

Miami wants to win a championship.

How does trading Butler for Middleton get you there?

Let's get slightly worse and slightly younger?

[planetmars]

Fit for what?

Miami wants to win a championship.

How does trading Butler for Middleton get you there?

Let's get slightly worse and slightly younger?

They are a win now team.. so trading him for cap space does nothing. But the team trading for Jimmy will only give back an expiring player worth of value back to Miami (if they don't plan to resign him for the max). Or more if they are willing to resign him.

Of the teams you mentioned I can see only maybe LA doing that. Perhaps NY if Randle goes the other way but I don't think they want to trade Randle.

Jimmy is great. But he only plays in like 50 games a year, and is looking for a max deal at 36. Miami will love to get more back but I don't think they will.

I think Middleton is a fine option. He's not super old. He's not as good as Jimmy but he's at least cheaper and can still fit in okay in that lineup as I've said.

For a win now team they will not be looking for draft picks or rookies. They'll want a win now player back.

[planetmars]

Then freaking keep Jimmy. Why in the hell would they want Middleton? Why? You can clear his cap with Philly and take nothing back if they think Jimmy Butler is a toxic asset worthy of cap cleaning.

Why would Miami want Middleton instead of pure cap space?

Butler is worth a ton not crap.

He's going to be disgruntled and could make it tough for that organization.. as he did in Chicago and Minnesota. Jimmy can be a force. It's easier to part ways then to just force him to play. And then have him walk for nothing at the end of the season.

And if they clear that cap early they will still likely be operating over the cap. So what good would that cap space be? And how does that help them win?

And Middleton is not crap. He's a former 3x all-star, champion, and reliable playoff option. He had surgery and looks healthy again.

[A.I]

The thing is if the Heat want to move on from Jimmy, they can do just that and chug along without having to tank until the next big free agent wants to go there.

They'll no doubt keep Bam for as long as they can. Possibly Herro and they'll keep Jaime and Jovic as well.