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What our GM needs to really Reevaluate.

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  • #76
    DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
    Why are the options a) all in on the current core or b) blow it all up? Personally, I think that the best option is to blow it up, but couldn't you trade one of DD/KL to remain competitive in the short term while developing young talent? This seems kinda appealing because it allows players a chance to develop in meaningful games?

    Is it just because you don't want to turn into the pre-2015 Hawks; a mediocre team which is consistently competing for the 8 seed?
    Atlanta only had 8th seed in 2008. For the next 5 years under the JJ/JSmooth/Al era, they were consistently 3 though 6 seed and mostly 4/5.

    But either way, they were 1st or 2nd round fodder. Regardless, neither fighting for the 8th or a first or second round speed bump is what I want for the Raptors.

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    • #77
      DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
      Why are the options a) all in on the current core or b) blow it all up? Personally, I think that the best option is to blow it up, but couldn't you trade one of DD/KL to remain competitive in the short term while developing young talent? This seems kinda appealing because it allows players a chance to develop in meaningful games?

      Is it just because you don't want to turn into the pre-2015 Hawks; a mediocre team which is consistently competing for the 8 seed?
      It's possible they trade only one of them, but trading one or trading both may end up with the same result. I think trading both while restocking on talent ends up with the Raps in contention for the 8th seed anyway. Is that a scenario that makes sense to pursue with a 30 year old PG or a guy with an expiring contract looking for a big raise? If you move one, you just increase the risk of the other getting disgruntled, and I think any move of one probably brings back less current-talent even if you do well in a deal and get more future-talent. Which means you maybe lose more games (depending on the coach) and waste a couple years of Lowry's prime, or you lose more games and increase the risk DD walks.

      I don't see Ujiri settling for a middle ground.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • #78
        Option 2 is terrible. The core of (Ross, JV, Bruno, BeBe, PP, JJ) has barely any star quality talent except for JV. This is going to be a very long (5 + year) plan that will require a lot of luck in the draft and patient with the fans and even then, it may not pan out.

        Option 1 is good except I would trade Lowry and consider the core of DD and JV. Lowry can not play with a big and we need a pass first point guard. With a better coach and PG , you can evaluate DD and JV and see if they can play with one another.

        If things did not go well, then you can go to a complete rebuild.

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        • #79
          OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
          Option 2 is probably the better long term. Option 1 is better short term.

          I would take Option 2 every time. Drafting lengthy, skilled players and putting them through proper development will beat out the whole pounding the rock thing that is KL+DD...

          *I love Middleton, but realistically he isn't leaving Milwaukee (especially for the Raptors), so hinging our wing position and ability to compete on him coming as a a RFA is highly unlikely.
          Middleton was a second round pick, so he wouldn't be RFA, he would be UFA.

          DanH wrote: View Post
          If you offer him a max contract, maybe he does. I don't know how much money Milwaukee will be willing to give him.
          We would have a chance, but this year he got much more minutes and seemed much happier. Hard to imagine he'd leave.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #80
            FWIW, I think JVG said he voted JV into the all-star game. He really likes him. How much a defense first coach that hasn't coached for ten years or whatever would help is another discussion.
            Eh follow my TWITTER!

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            • #81
              DanH wrote: View Post
              If you offer him a max contract, maybe he does. I don't know how much money Milwaukee will be willing to give him.
              All of it should be the answer at this point. They have a lineup that should be able to develop into a menace on both ends of the floor

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              • #82
                DanH wrote: View Post
                There are two options as far as I see it. I don't see them going the tanking route at this point.

                1) Go all in on the core of KL, DD and JV. Let Amir and Lou (and everyone else) walk. Trade GV, Ross and a future pick (Knicks 2016) for a starting PF. Sign Middleton to a max deal at SF. Draft a third PG, find a vet PG for the Room MLE to play backup, with the draftee maybe growing into the role. Sign a vet min guy to play backup C (Hayes?), though you probably run a 3 big rotation for the most part). Get a new coach, probably an established vet like Thibs if he is available, or throw a bank at JVG.

                That leaves a lineup of:
                KL, backup, rook
                DD, Middleton, vet min
                Middleton, JJ, Bruno
                Starting PF, PP, JJ
                JV, BeBe, Vet min

                2) Blow it up, rebuild on the fly. Keep Ross, JV, Bruno, BeBe, PP, JJ. Move DD and Lowry in separate deals for young talent at any position (we'll assume 2 through 4 as teams are usually hesitant to move talent at the 1 or 5). GV could be included as salary ballast, or dumped for a second rounder to a team needing a backup PG. This could free up a lot more cap space. Make the same offer to Middleton. Sign a young PF (Tristan Thompson?). Go after Cory Joseph as your starting PG (he's one of the best defenders in the game at that spot). Draft BPA (my preference would be George Lucas). Basically go all in on defence first players.

                That means a lineup of:
                Joseph, Lucas, vet min
                Ross, Young SG from Lowry deal, vet min
                Middleton, JJ, Bruno
                Thompson, PP, Young PF from DD deal
                JV, BeBe, vet min

                Obviously I've put in specific examples of a more general idea, but you get the gist.
                I would be ok with a modified option 2 where you keep DD. Think if you do any sort of rebuild his work ethic and dedication to the game is important for any rook to see, plus I personally think he has a lot of untapped potential in his game still. Unless of course you can move Lowry/DD to get into this years lottery because I REALLY like the top end talent this year.

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                • #83
                  I don't know the exact math, but I would think that a $15M max contract would be a kin to a $12M contract once the cap goes up.

                  So $12M for someone like Middleton is not too much of an overpay. It's high, but the Raptors still don't have league cache, and would have trouble getting other team's free agents to sign up. Especially since Leiweke won't be helping with the recruiting anymore.

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                  • #84
                    Bandit wrote: View Post
                    I would be ok with a modified option 2 where you keep DD. Think if you do any sort of rebuild his work ethic and dedication to the game is important for any rook to see, plus I personally think he has a lot of untapped potential in his game still. Unless of course you can move Lowry/DD to get into this years lottery because I REALLY like the top end talent this year.
                    Agree with this as well. I just don't think Lowry fits here anymore and trading DD now, is giving away talent that still has so much more to show.

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                    • #85
                      McRealistic wrote: View Post
                      Agree with this as well. I just don't think Lowry fits here anymore and trading DD now, is giving away talent that still has so much more to show.
                      I think with his talent level and contract you have some really nice options in trade as well, could be some teams looking for a guy like him to make a push into the playoffs. Should be able to bring back some young talent or picks. I wouldn't even be opposed to trading for a similar level vet PF (similar in talent and age) if we wanted to make another push for the playoffs next year.

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                      • #86
                        FYI, second round picks are RFA's too, not UFA's.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • #87
                          DanH wrote: View Post
                          FYI, second round picks are RFA's too, not UFA's.
                          Too many acronyms.

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                          • #88
                            What he needs to do is finally trade Derozan. We need a team that distributes the ball, the offense is just too predictable.

                            I have never been under the opinion that Casey had the right pieces in place. Raptors have been thrusted into over-achievement mode due to the weakness of their division. They are a slightly below average basketball team in the NBA with a very predictable offense and defense. The blueprint to beat them is out there. The raptors just live and die by perimeter shots and since they don't make those shots at an efficient rate we will retain our reputation as a big fish in a small pond (Atlantic Division)

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                            • #89

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                              • #90
                                so we are trading the only 2 players who have received all star recognition for draft picks of totally unproven players? Unless you get #1 overall to secure a definitive franchise player how is this progress? How has having the top pick overall for years worked out for the Edmonton Oilers? Seems to me like the same teams draft in the Top 5 in the NFL year after year so how is that going? Lowry has had a disappointing 2nd half to this season and he is fodder suddenly. All the good of the previous 18 months is a mirage and is to be totally disregarded. I haven't read of any reports of rift in the locker room. Any team related troubles/scandals so I don't get it. So why doesn't he fit here all of a sudden? Maybe he truly is limited physically right now. Why is that so far fetched? And with the intensity that he played with last season, and up until his injury this year what is there to suggest otherwise? Would we prefer he be like Vince/Bosh, and sit out while overplaying his injury status? Nothing seems to satisfy some of you. You want it both ways. Ill take Kyle any day, based on the info that we have.

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