Is Tanking An Option?

[peanutwoozle]

To add further to the debate, we've never actually done a proper rebuild in god knows how long. BC was always looking for short sighted moves to sneak into the playoffs. Masai was about to tank but then we started winning. We've never actually tanked properly in the last 8 seasons.

So, if you were Philly last year, would you have been happy with how it turned out?

because I sure wouldn't be proud with coming out with the next Eddy Curry.

[MangoKid]

Should continue to be interesting to watch the hunt for the new MLSE boss. So....our cornerstone franchise (the leafs) just fired everyone and is selling everything not nailed down but on the plus side, the franchise that has won the hearts of fans...might just be about to do the same thing.

The difference between the two franchises is that the Leafs are littered with near immovable contracts unless they eat a good chunk of it and have next to no cap space. Raptors are in a much better place.

[hotfuzz]

So, if you were Philly last year, would you have been happy with how it turned out?

because I sure wouldn't be proud with coming out with the next Eddy Curry.

I think they've done a good job so far. Of course I'm in the minority.

This looks like eddy curry to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1iunhwzTG0

[peanutwoozle]

I think they've done a good job so far. Of course I'm in the minority.

This looks like eddy curry to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1iunhwzTG0

http://articles.philly.com/2015-04-1...n-nerlens-noel

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Rehab-Sessions

his attitude sure reminds me of Curry.

[DogeLover1234]

http://articles.philly.com/2015-04-1...n-nerlens-noel

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Rehab-Sessions

his attitude sure reminds me of Curry.

In his defense he was in a pretty sh*ty situation this year. His brother died early into the year and he was in a new situation. for a while he couldn't play basketball, which is really the one thing he really wanted to do and he is only like 20. Once he started playing basketball again there were no issues. I would rather have him than anyone currently on the Raps in all honesty.

[ezz_bee]

0) Offer Aldrige, Kawhi, Draymond Green Max contracts. (This is option zero, because none of them will sign with us).

1) Sign young role players to decent contracts (basically Patrick Patterson-ish contracts).

2) Quietly shop Lowry and/or Demar

Maybe a new coach gets Ross and/or JV to make a leap, maybe one of the young role player's do. If that's the case, you can run the team back with Lowry and Demar to a hard fought second round/quick conference finals exit.

If not, you trade Lowry and Demar for young pieces/draft pics.

Here's what you don't do:

Don't sign above average aging vets: Sorry West/Millsap. (Caveat, unless you get them at a really low price, so they are easily moveable)

Don't panic trade Lowry or Demar. You have to search out desperate teams, not be desperate yourself. Look what Flip Saunders got for Love, look what Boston got for Rondo. Masai can wait until the 2016 trade deadline if he has to, in order to move either guy.


Better than tanking, have your cake and eat their's too: The only way to cheat code the NBA is to get other team's high draft picks. Ideally, you want to be NBA Champions, & have a guaranteed top five pick in the upcoming draft. If the NY-Denver-Tor pick swap was happening now we'd be looking at the 7th pick - not a bad add for a playoff team. You want to search out trade partners with GMs who over value their team and are in "win now mode", yeah it takes some luck, but so does straight gutting your team. Reap the benefits of other teams being shitty.

At some point, you may need to field a team that is bottom five in talent, but the Raps don't need to go there this off-season. A lot of people criticizing Masai right now, but so far he's been really solid (with the exception of the smack talk). The clock starts now, but I'm watching the hour hand, not the minute or the second hand.

Management is the most important piece: no matter the coach or talent level, you need a GM who can make good draft picks at any number, and make good trades/FA acquisitions (although I don't particularly like free agency). I'm still happy to have Masai calling the shots.

Next is coaching: I was on board with Casey, and liked what he did, but it's time for him to go. Getting an institutional coach isn't easy, but that's what we need. You have to look for a guy that can go adjustment for adjustment with Pops-Carlisle-Kerr-Thibs-SVG-Doc. NBA coaches can lose playoff series. You need a coach who can learn and adapt, both game to game and season to season.

If you have an above average GM AND an above average coach, you will have prolonged success. Good management is like compound interest, each good move is a little better in combination with each other previous good move. Over time it accumulates, it won't guarantee a championship banner, but it will get you to the conference finals. We need that coach. Masai has had two years to think about who his next coach is going to be.

Last thought on the tanking next year: If the Nuggets and Knicks look bad next year, tanking erodes the value of that pick swap. If they look bad, might as well be good and trade a crap pick for a good one.

[Nilanka]

Cathal Kelly's take:

It’s a time for (semi) educated guesses, so here’s one – Mr. DeRozan lands in Los Angeles. Though currently awful, the Lakers are compelled to tool up for next year, since it’s Kobe Bryant’s last. A guy like Mr. Bryant is not going out on a 30-win team. He’ll torch the Staples Center before he lets that happen.

The Lakers will sign free agents Kevin Love and Rajon Rondo for nothing but money. Then they trade picks and/or prospects for another need – a versatile, unselfish wing who just happens to be from L.A.

Skittish small forward Terrence Ross steps into Mr. DeRozan’s role, much as Mr. DeRozan stepped into Rudy Gay’s. Presto whammo – instant, painless facelift.

There will be plenty of others who leave quietly. They are the broken (Amir Johnson, Landry Fields), the unnecessary (Chuck Hayes, Greg Stiemsma), the overpriced (Lou Williams) and the downright dangerous (Greivis Vasquez).

It leaves them very young and a little thin –Mr. Lowry, Mr. Ross (24) and centre Jonas Valanciunas (22) are the core of that new Raptors team.

This is where the localized wretchedness of today’s NBA comes into play. That shaky roster may still win the Atlantic Division. If Mr. Ujiri can have it both ways – a quickie rebuild, along with home-court advantage in the playoffs – why wouldn’t he try?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle24132860/

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Cathal Kelly's take:



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle24132860/

I like it, though in that scenario, there is no reason to keep Lowry - cash him in too!

[Just Is]

Cathal Kelly's take:



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle24132860/

I'll be honest...I like this way more than I probably should.

[Nilanka]

I like it, though in that scenario, there is no reason to keep Lowry - cash him in too!

I'll be honest...I like this way more than I probably should.

Yeah, I can't say I'd be terribly disappointed if it played out that way.

[The_Warlord]

Unless you're going win-now, don't think you can trade Demar without Kyle and vice-versa..

Demar's been through too much with this team to sit through another rebuild.. Would be gone for sure after next season. Kyle is in the meat of his prime and will never have higher trade value coming off an all-star game (even though it took a hit this series)

Trade:

Kyle & Demar for Julius Randle, Jordan Clarkson, Bob Sacre, Nick Young & their first

[white men can't jump]

0) Offer Aldrige, Kawhi, Draymond Green Max contracts. (This is option zero, because none of them will sign with us).

1) Sign young role players to decent contracts (basically Patrick Patterson-ish contracts).

2) Quietly shop Lowry and/or Demar

Maybe a new coach gets Ross and/or JV to make a leap, maybe one of the young role player's do. If that's the case, you can run the team back with Lowry and Demar to a hard fought second round/quick conference finals exit.

If not, you trade Lowry and Demar for young pieces/draft pics.

Here's what you don't do:

Don't sign above average aging vets: Sorry West/Millsap. (Caveat, unless you get them at a really low price, so they are easily moveable)

Don't panic trade Lowry or Demar. You have to search out desperate teams, not be desperate yourself. Look what Flip Saunders got for Love, look what Boston got for Rondo. Masai can wait until the 2016 trade deadline if he has to, in order to move either guy.


Better than tanking, have your cake and eat their's too: The only way to cheat code the NBA is to get other team's high draft picks. Ideally, you want to be NBA Champions, & have a guaranteed top five pick in the upcoming draft. If the NY-Denver-Tor pick swap was happening now we'd be looking at the 7th pick - not a bad add for a playoff team. You want to search out trade partners with GMs who over value their team and are in "win now mode", yeah it takes some luck, but so does straight gutting your team. Reap the benefits of other teams being shitty.

At some point, you may need to field a team that is bottom five in talent, but the Raps don't need to go there this off-season. A lot of people criticizing Masai right now, but so far he's been really solid (with the exception of the smack talk). The clock starts now, but I'm watching the hour hand, not the minute or the second hand.

Management is the most important piece: no matter the coach or talent level, you need a GM who can make good draft picks at any number, and make good trades/FA acquisitions (although I don't particularly like free agency). I'm still happy to have Masai calling the shots.

Next is coaching: I was on board with Casey, and liked what he did, but it's time for him to go. Getting an institutional coach isn't easy, but that's what we need. You have to look for a guy that can go adjustment for adjustment with Pops-Carlisle-Kerr-Thibs-SVG-Doc. NBA coaches can lose playoff series. You need a coach who can learn and adapt, both game to game and season to season.

If you have an above average GM AND an above average coach, you will have prolonged success. Good management is like compound interest, each good move is a little better in combination with each other previous good move. Over time it accumulates, it won't guarantee a championship banner, but it will get you to the conference finals. We need that coach. Masai has had two years to think about who his next coach is going to be.

Last thought on the tanking next year: If the Nuggets and Knicks look bad next year, tanking erodes the value of that pick swap. If they look bad, might as well be good and trade a crap pick for a good one.

Millsap's an above average aging vet? But Aldridge isn't? They're the same age, and I don't think the gap is as big as some make it out to be between the two.

Aldridge is a high-volume scorer who likes to take long 2s from the PF position. I can see his addition just leading to more frustration around here. He hasn't shown much in the way of being a great facilitator either. He isn't a defensive anchor, and he's not the quickest guy in a league playing more and more small/stretch players at PF. I don't think he's the franchise player some paint him to be. And I think Millsap is a much more well-rounded team player who might be the most underrated PF in the league (him or his teammate Horford). And I used to think Millsap wouldn't be worth his high price tag a couple of years ago, but he just got even better in Atlanta.

[Bandit]

Unless you're going win-now, don't think you can trade Demar without Kyle and vice-versa..

Demar's been through too much with this team to sit through another rebuild.. Would be gone for sure after next season. Kyle is in the meat of his prime and will never have higher trade value coming off an all-star game (even though it took a hit this series)

Trade:

Kyle & Demar for Julius Randle, Jordan Clarkson, Bob Sacre, Nick Young & their first

I would be happy for just the first much less Randle. If this was on the table somehow, I think you take it and run

[planetmars]

Cathal Kelly's take:



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle24132860/

I think Kelly is basically an idiot.. but this plan makes sense, and I could see Masai getting behind it.

[The_Warlord]

[/B]

I would be happy for just the first much less Randle. If this was on the table somehow, I think you take it and run

Agreed, think it should be the starting point for negotiations but should be offered.

I think Kobe would be behind this deal, Lowry's definitely the type of guy he can play with and all of LA would buy the idea of Demar being Kobe's apprentice next year, and taking over the position after he retired.

If the Lakers could pull this off and get Kevin Love I could see them doing this deal to give Kobe the send off he deserves while having a nice core to build around after he retires.