Are you willing to trade Big Val for any of the top 4 picks in this year's draft ?

[white men can't jump]

Athleticism, size, and court vision all translate well into the NBA. Reason he's still a top 5 projected pick after spending the season in China.


You really don't think he's shown star potential after what he's done post all star game break?

I know it's not addressing me, but I don't think he has. He's got good combo guard skills, but is an undersized SG and not good enough as a PG. Good competitive mentality too. Could be a fringe all-star, but looks just like a solid starter or 6th man at the moment.

Also have to remember every "good" player on Orlando has inflated stats, and it just got worse as the season went on since they fired their coach and tanked the rest of the year. So it's hard to properly judge guys on that team.

[mcHAPPY]

Athleticism, size, and court vision all translate well into the NBA. Reason he's still a top 5 projected pick after spending the season in China.


You really don't think he's shown star potential after what he's done post all star game break?

He has shown potential over the last 6 weeks of season but we have seen that from young guys on bad teams.

I'm on the fence on him. I think a consistent 3 while playing next to Payton is crucial for him. If that happens, he is a star, I think.

As WMCJ pointed out, size is a bit of a concern too.

[yabadabayolo]

lol

Who said he was a #1 pick?

Read what I wrote. I don't like the odds.

Did I only value DD as a late first round pick? That doesn't sound right. I'm sure there was a 3 and D type player also attached to that trade as well.

I asked that in the original post that you replied to with various busts.

So you'd trade Jv for a top 2 pick AND a 3 & D player ? Honestly, I don't get how you can trade demar for peanuts while asking for a kings feast for JV. c'mon man, Jv is not that valuable.

[mcHAPPY]

I asked that in the original post that you replied to with various busts.

So you'd trade Jv for a top 2 pick AND a 3 & D player ? Honestly, I don't get how you can trade demar for peanuts while asking for a kings feast for JV. c'mon man, Jv is not that valuable.

Did you read my original reply?

No if keeping DD and KL
Yes if clearing house


You dont' seem to recognize that inefficient volume scoring on the wing is the easiest type of player to obtain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know DD now rebounds and gets assists. Unfortunately he doesn't help winning. Just about all of his advanced stats show this. He also has just 1 year left on his contract before he is an UFA.


As for JV, he fills the hardest position to fill in basketball. Add to that he is 22. His advanced stats are best on the team. He is an efficient scorer and rebounds. His defense at the rim is very good. He improved defensively as the year went on despite a horrible horrible system that did nothing to help him at all. He managed to improve his simple stats (minus 0.1 rebs) despite playing 2 minutes LESS per game. The Raptors are also going to have the option to keep him for another 5-6 years. That is a player you can build around.

So if you're blowing the team up, sure I'll take the #2 pick. If you're going to stick with this core and try to win, no I won't trade him. That is why I haven't voted on this poll.

[tDotted]

I know it's not addressing me, but I don't think he has. He's got good combo guard skills, but is an undersized SG and not good enough as a PG. Good competitive mentality too. Could be a fringe all-star, but looks just like a solid starter or 6th man at the moment.

Also have to remember every "good" player on Orlando has inflated stats, and it just got worse as the season went on since they fired their coach and tanked the rest of the year. So it's hard to properly judge guys on that team.

Good points but what makes stats 'inflated'? Do you consider Cousins' stats this year or Love's stats last year as inflated?

He has shown potential over the last 6 weeks of season but we have seen that from young guys on bad teams.

I'm on the fence on him. I think a consistent 3 while playing next to Payton is crucial for him. If that happens, he is a star, I think.

As WMCJ pointed out, size is a bit of a concern too.

A consistent 3 with consistent finishing around the rim will see this guy in top 25 category.

[white men can't jump]

Good points but what makes stats 'inflated'? Do you consider Cousins' stats this year or Love's stats last year as inflated?


A consistent 3 with consistent finishing around the rim will see this guy in top 25 category.

Most likely yes.

Maybe a bit less for Cousins, but for a good team, if he was being held accountable, there'd have to be a slight drop off, even if it just lasted a couple of seasons until he figures out how to be that productive with less mistakes. But Cousins has legit #1 option talent, but between his attitude and the mess that is Sacramento, he's not really being held accountable and being developed all that well. He's pretty much allowed to do whatever he wants on the court, and this, IMO, is the main factor in inflating stats.

And for sure with Love. I still think Love is stupidly overrated. He benefited hugely from the situation in Minny. Got to be the focal point of the offence, which he probably shouldn't ever be.

[yabadabayolo]

Did you read my original reply?

No if keeping DD and KL
Yes if clearing house


You dont' seem to recognize that inefficient volume scoring on the wing is the easiest type of player to obtain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know DD now rebounds and gets assists. Unfortunately he doesn't help winning. Just about all of his advanced stats show this. He also has just 1 year left on his contract before he is an UFA.


As for JV, he fills the hardest position to fill in basketball. Add to that he is 22. His advanced stats are best on the team. He is an efficient scorer and rebounds. His defense at the rim is very good. He improved defensively as the year went on despite a horrible horrible system that did nothing to help him at all. He managed to improve his simple stats (minus 0.1 rebs) despite playing 2 minutes LESS per game. The Raptors are also going to have the option to keep him for another 5-6 years. That is a player you can build around.

So if you're blowing the team up, sure I'll take the #2 pick. If you're going to stick with this core and try to win, no I won't trade him. That is why I haven't voted on this poll.

At this point I don't really know what your trying to arguing about so...

I'll take your word for it ! Whatever

[mcHAPPY]

At this point I don't really know what your trying to arguing about so...

I'll take your word for it ! Whatever

Funny I feel the same.

From what I understand you're crying a river over trade proposals made before DeRozan broke out in his 5th season. Take a look through the trade forum to see what I think his value is now.

Now you're whining because I wouldn't trade a known near dbl-dbl, 22 yo C for an unknown draft pick FOR A TEAM THAT IS STILL TEYING TO COMPETE.

I am not sure how that is so difficult to understand.

[yabadabayolo]

Funny I feel the same.

From what I understand you're crying a river over trade proposals made before DeRozan broke out in his 5th season. Take a look through the trade forum to see what I think his value is now.

Now you're whining because I wouldn't trade a known near dbl-dbl, 22 yo C for an unknown draft pick FOR A TEAM THAT IS STILL TEYING TO COMPETE.

I am not sure how that is so difficult to understand.

Nope. I was crying a river over the fact you wanted to trade a young promising wing for an unknown draft pick in the late first round pick and then go on to say you wouldn't trade a 22 year old c for an unknown top 2 draft pick.

The part about the team trying to compete was never used on my part. I just asked if you'd trade JV for a top pick and you bluntly cherrypicked a bunch of busts that were drafted 2nd overall.

[mcHAPPY]

Nope. I was crying a river over the fact you wanted to trade a young promising wing for an unknown draft pick in the late first round pick and then go on to say you wouldn't trade a 22 year old c for an unknown top 2 draft pick.

The part about the team trying to compete was never used on my part. I just asked if you'd trade JV for a top pick and you bluntly cherrypicked a bunch of busts that were drafted 2nd overall.

I don't recall ever looking to get just a late first round pick for DeRozan. There was always more to it.

As for cherry picking, I provided the last 8 drafts of #2 picks. I laid out what each player was and said I did not like the odds. You took a swipe at anyone who voted no referring to them as fan boys when the reality is there has only been 1 #2 pick in the last 8 years that has exceeded JVs value.....and JV is just 22.

If anything is cherry picked it is the notion that a #2 pick is certain to yield a better player than JV.


I don't think you understand that, overall, a C has more value than a wing - especially good Cs. Why do you think so many teams overpay bigs? Talented ones are in very short supply.

[yabadabayolo]

I don't recall ever looking to get just a late first round pick for DeRozan. There was always more to it.

As for cherry picking, I provided the last 8 drafts of #2 picks. I laid out what each player was and said I did not like the odds. You took a swipe at anyone who voted no referring to them as fan boys when the reality is there has only been 1 #2 pick in the last 8 years that has exceeded JVs value.....and JV is just 22.

If anything is cherry picked it is the notion that a #2 pick is certain to yield a better player than JV.


I don't think you understand that, overall, a C has more value than a wing - especially good Cs. Why do you think so many teams overpay bigs? Talented ones are in very short supply.

Hey man. Would you draft Jv number 1 or number 2 in this draaft right now. Do you think he will have a better career than Karl towns, okafor, etc...

What do you think fair value for Jv is then since a top 2 pick isn't enough. What do you want back for Jv.

And buddy there have been a plethora of overplayed wings just lie there are overplayed bigs. Talented players are hard to come by, I understand that

[Mindlessness]

Hey man. Would you draft Jv number 1 or number 2 in this draaft right now. Do you think he will have a better career than Karl towns, okafor, etc...

What do you think fair value for Jv is then since a top 2 pick isn't enough. What do you want back for Jv.

And buddy there have been a plethora of overplayed wings just lie there are overplayed bigs. Talented players are hard to come by, I understand that

For what it's worth I'm the one I think you were calling an idiot for not wanting Okafor over JV.

I've stated if we're getting a top 5 pick; Russell, Towns, and Winslow. But not Okafor. Maybe Mudiay.

EDIT: Also, Matt did say he hasn't voted yet as for him it depends on the future. I'm not sure why you really really want him to answer your question but I'm pretty sure he's answered it.

[KHD]

Athleticism, size, and court vision all translate well into the NBA. Reason he's still a top 5 projected pick after spending the season in China.


You really don't think he's shown star potential after what he's done post all star game break?

13-game bargnani showed "star potential" too. i'm not sold

[KHD]

Nope. I was crying a river over the fact you wanted to trade a young promising wing for an unknown draft pick in the late first round pick and then go on to say you wouldn't trade a 22 year old c for an unknown top 2 draft pick.

The part about the team trying to compete was never used on my part. I just asked if you'd trade JV for a top pick and you bluntly cherrypicked a bunch of busts that were drafted 2nd overall.

lol, yeah he obviously cherrypicked by giving every 2nd pick for the last 8 years. jesus christ.


Here's the thing about trading for high draft picks. both teams will be highly uncomfortable. The team giving the pick, because they might give away a superstar PLUS the affordable rookie contract and 8/9 years of control on the player. the team giving the established NBA player is taking a huge gamble.

You have no fucking clue how Towns, Winslow, Okafor are going to turn out, whether they will adjust well or not, whether their bodies hold up, etc etc. So why the hell are you so upset that somebody might hesitate to trade a legit double-double center who has shown great potential for that?

[mcHAPPY]

Hey man. Would you draft Jv number 1 or number 2 in this draaft right now. Do you think he will have a better career than Karl towns, okafor, etc...

What do you think fair value for Jv is then since a top 2 pick isn't enough. What do you want back for Jv.

And buddy there have been a plethora of overplayed wings just lie there are overplayed bigs. Talented players are hard to come by, I understand that

I don't know who will have better career. For all the talk of dd being better off with a different coach, no one has more to gain than JV.

But you haven't read my posts. I've already said if you're cleaning house I'll trade JV for a top 2 pick. This is more because you will have this player for 8-9 years if you want and one would assume the player fits the needs of the team attempting to be built since you'd likely be blowing up current team. But know it is not a sure fire bet hence the listing of #2 draft picks of last 8 years.

If you are trading JV for a draft pick and keeping the same core, it is going to be about 3 years before those guys become impact players above and beyond JV. Even Anthony Davis, who appears to be generational talent, took better part of 2 seasons. So you want to trade JV for a guy who isn't going to be a difference maker until DD is 28 and Lowry is 32?

Talented bigs are much much harder to find. This is not even debatable at all.