Woj: Casey will be back

[slaw]

You have to understand the context with the TV ratings, though. When the Argos play they are playing other Canadian teams and those fan bases are watching, too. Not to mention that TSN has turned the whole Friday Night Football into a sports viewing institution for a lot of casual sports fans in Canada. The Blue Jays have a very loyal following right across Canada. When I wear my Jays hat in Calgary I always end up talking baseball with someone - from 70 year old oilmen to 20-year old waitresses. Baseball is more popular than you think.

The Raptors are a Toronto team. I don't know a single basketball fan out west (other than the few people on here) who cheer for the Raps. My buddies who are ball fans cheer for the Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Thunder (Seattle days) or Portland. They view the Raps the same way they view Milwaukee or Charlotte: a completely irrelevant franchise.

[Cody73]

Not really when you consider the CFL is pretty popular (I'm a pretty big Argos fan myself) and it's also pretty damn hard to find out exactly what channel the Raptors play on.

Channel location should definitely be taken into account.

Not only that, but cost. One of the few reasons I do radio for every game is because cable is so expensive. I may not see the plays till later, but I still have a vision of whats going on the floor. Plus, Smith and Jones do a okay job when they don't shout annoying shit like Matty Fucking Devlin.


Plus, I hate the fact that basic cable doesn't get me TSN2 or any Sportsnet channel. It doesn't make any sense.

[golden]

You have to understand the context with the TV ratings, though. When the Argos play they are playing other Canadian teams and those fan bases are watching, too. Not to mention that TSN has turned the whole Friday Night Football into a sports viewing institution for a lot of casual sports fans in Canada. The Blue Jays have a very loyal following right across Canada. When I wear my Jays hat in Calgary I always end up talking baseball with someone - from 70 year old oilmen to 20-year old waitresses. Baseball is more popular than you think.

The Raptors are a Toronto team. I don't know a single basketball fan out west (other than the few people on here) who cheer for the Raps. My buddies who are ball fans cheer for the Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Thunder (Seattle days) or Portland. They view the Raps the same way they view Milwaukee or Charlotte: a completely irrelevant franchise.

My buddies are the same, maybe worse. Basically hockey guys, 24/7, almost all of whom played and their kids are all starting to play. I used to be hardcore hockey viewer (and played both sports), but for some reason I switched over to the Raps during the Vince/T-Mac era.

Your conclusion is the same as the article and quite probably MLSE. Except for those people who post on Raptors Republic forums, nobody really cares about the Raptors. If you were Bell & Rogers in the eyeballs business, would you spend money on something with a low probability of return (i.e. advertising dollars)? Despite the recent regular season success, even moreso relative to other MLSE teams, the Raps are still the ugly step sisters and probably always will be.

And the other important thing to consider is the marketing demographic. I don't have the data, but they've talked about it on PrimeTime Sports and Raptors viewers are typically much younger than Leaf, Jays and especially CFL viewers (middle aged, wealthy, white males). The demographic component is huge when trying to win advertising revenues and sponsorship deals. 250K Raps viewers might be 1/4th of the Leafs viewers, but it could represent 1/8th of the disposal income, for example.

[Primer]

My buddies are the same, maybe worse. Basically hockey guys, 24/7, almost all of whom played and their kids are all starting to play. I used to be hardcore hockey viewer (and played both sports), but for some reason I switched over to the Raps during the Vince/T-Mac era.

Your conclusion is the same as the article and quite probably MLSE. Except for those people who post on Raptors Republic forums, nobody really cares about the Raptors. If you were Bell & Rogers in the eyeballs business, would you spend money on something with a low probability of return (i.e. advertising dollars)? Despite the recent regular season success, even moreso relative to other MLSE teams, the Raps are still the ugly step sisters and probably always will be.

And the other important thing to consider is the marketing demographic. I don't have the data, but they've talked about it on PrimeTime Sports and Raptors viewers are typically much younger than Leaf, Jays and especially CFL viewers (middle aged, wealthy, white males). The demographic component is huge when trying to win advertising revenues and sponsorship deals. 250K Raps viewers might be 1/4th of the Leafs viewers, but it could represent 1/8th of the disposal income, for example.

Younger viewers is by far the most coveted market for advertising, especially males ages 18-34, so if the raptors are doing better with the young demographic that's a very good thing. It doesn't have anything to do with disposable income, it's all about how much they spend, and young males spend more than anyone by a wide margin.

[golden]

Younger viewers is by far the most coveted market for advertising, especially males ages 18-34, so if the raptors are doing better with the young demographic that's a very good thing. It doesn't have anything to do with disposable income, it's all about how much they spend, and young males spend more than anyone by a wide margin.

No marketing guy here, but I'm guessing that the typical Raps viewer is a notch younger than 18-34 - more like teens to mid-20s as the median (RR forums excepted). Even so, the 18-34 demographic used to be the marketing target, but some say that's changed too, as the a lot of young people are having difficulty finding jobs.

The Declining Economic Might of the Once Coveted 18-to-34 Demographic
http://business.time.com/2012/03/16/...4-demographic/

[Primer]

No marketing guy here, but I'm guessing that the typical Raps viewer is a notch younger than 18-34 - more like teens to mid-20s as the median (RR forums excepted). Even so, the 18-34 demographic used to be the marketing target, but some say that's changed too, as the a lot of young people are having difficulty finding jobs.

The Declining Economic Might of the Once Coveted 18-to-34 Demographic
http://business.time.com/2012/03/16/...4-demographic/

I don't think they even keep track of viewers under age 18 except for early morning kids shows, where they just assume all viewers are well under 18. 18-34 year olds spend money whether they have it or not, maxed out credit cards paying the minimum. Try watching something like Judge Judy, which pulls in massive numbers, but the demographic is old, so all the commercials are life insurance and diabetes medicine, and those commercial slots costs way less than a college football game that pulls in 1/4 the numbers. Older people have mortgage payments, they save a lot, they pay for their kids college, they don't waste their money on bud light and new shoes.

[Cody73]

Just gonna say this:

Has anyone else here tried out using radio for games at all?


Just wanna know what the numbers are like for listening to the games.

[Just Is]

Just gonna say this:

Has anyone else here tried out using radio for games at all?


Just wanna know what the numbers are like for listening to the games.

I have a few times where there's a game on and I'm working overtime.

[S.R.]

My buddies are the same, maybe worse. Basically hockey guys, 24/7, almost all of whom played and their kids are all starting to play. I used to be hardcore hockey viewer (and played both sports), but for some reason I switched over to the Raps during the Vince/T-Mac era.

Your conclusion is the same as the article and quite probably MLSE. Except for those people who post on Raptors Republic forums, nobody really cares about the Raptors. If you were Bell & Rogers in the eyeballs business, would you spend money on something with a low probability of return (i.e. advertising dollars)? Despite the recent regular season success, even moreso relative to other MLSE teams, the Raps are still the ugly step sisters and probably always will be.

And the other important thing to consider is the marketing demographic. I don't have the data, but they've talked about it on PrimeTime Sports and Raptors viewers are typically much younger than Leaf, Jays and especially CFL viewers (middle aged, wealthy, white males). The demographic component is huge when trying to win advertising revenues and sponsorship deals. 250K Raps viewers might be 1/4th of the Leafs viewers, but it could represent 1/8th of the disposal income, for example.

What's the growth potential for the markets though? This country adds 250 000 new immigrants every year, and immigrant and minority populations are growing at much faster rates (larger families) than Canadian-born/white populations. TFC and the Raptors have much more growth potential than the hockey market, which is huge and stable but must be more or less tapped out.

[Cody73]

I have a few times where there's a game on and I'm working overtime.

Considering it's free, do you think it's a good option? Or do like streams/TV more?


You see, I don't mind Jones/Smith. There okay IMO, unless Jones goes off like Devlin.

[Just Is]

Considering it's free, do you think it's a good option? Or do like streams/TV more?


You see, I don't mind Jones/Smith. There okay IMO, unless Jones goes off like Devlin.

Think it's a good option but it's almost impossible not to like streams more. Just because you can see it and interpret it a little easier than just hearing it.

[Cody73]

Think it's a good option but it's almost impossible not to like streams more. Just because you can see it and interpret it a little easier than just hearing it.

When I can, I stream too. But I will admit I like Jones/Smith more than Armstrong/Devlin.


I once tried using a stream muted with the radio on.... and it was nearly perfect.

[golden]

What's the growth potential for the markets though? This country adds 250 000 new immigrants every year, and immigrant and minority populations are growing at much faster rates (larger families) than Canadian-born/white populations. TFC and the Raptors have much more growth potential than the hockey market, which is huge and stable but must be more or less tapped out.

Yep, the changing demographic represents potential market with upside for sure. But the questions are: when will that market arrive and how much $$ does MLSE need to invest now? And not to stereotype, but newer immigrants and certain ethnic groups tend to be more frugal and value conscious, preferring to save for tangible, lasting assets like homes, rather than spend discretionary income on entertainment and disposal items.

I live & work in one of the most ethnically diverse areas of the GTA (Markham) and my observation of what's happening around my neighborhood is that it's the kids of immigrants who are part of the new wave of Raptor fans that you're talking about - mostly high school, university and young adult age. It's coming, I think, but it's going to take time. I'm sure the people at MLSE, Rogers, Bell and product advertisers already know all of this stuff to a tee.

[slaw]

Except for those people who post on Raptors Republic forums, nobody really cares about the Raptors. If you were Bell & Rogers in the eyeballs business, would you spend money on something with a low probability of return (i.e. advertising dollars

Actually, the Raptors have a very solid corporate sponsorship revenue stream. I believe they are top 10 in the NBA for sponsorship revenues.

Also, from what I have been told by a reliable source (i.e. someone who was involved in the MLSE sale to Rogers/Bell) the Raptors generate a profit of anywhere from $20-$30 million a year for MLSE.

There is no issue with the Raptors generating dollars or having a big budget. The team is more than self-sustaining.

[golden]

Actually, the Raptors have a very solid corporate sponsorship revenue stream. I believe they are top 10 in the NBA for sponsorship revenues.

Also, from what I have been told by a reliable source (i.e. someone who was involved in the MLSE sale to Rogers/Bell) the Raptors generate a profit of anywhere from $20-$30 million a year for MLSE.

There is no issue with the Raptors generating dollars or having a big budget. The team is more than self-sustaining.

Good points. Raps profit was actually $18M last year down from $29M profit the year before on similar revenues, according to Forbes. So, Leweike has gotten MLSE to fork out increasingly more dollars on Raptor initiatives and player salaries. Or the profit drop could be more the effect of the plummeting CDN dollar (scary thought). I guess much of my own personal angst is a fear of MLSE going back to penny pinching ways once Leweike is gone, even though I know MLSE is not OTPP anymore.

This would be pound foolish considering the big picture of some NBA franchises now approaching multi-billion dollar valuations and a lucrative future TV deal and assuming Bell/Rogers would even want to cash out at some point. The next collective bargaining agreement will be another interesting dynamic.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptor...nba-teams.html