Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Batum: Does he still fit?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    007 wrote: View Post
    If they're producing the same in two years, trade Batum. Bruno will only be 21 years old.
    Bruno at best will be expected to play 3-D and usually on-ball. Batum does a lot more even though he hasn't been hitting the three. Its a Landry situation but at least he has a short deal if he has to go lefty. Thought Portland would have moved him at the trade deadline.

    Comment


    • #47
      I pass, it's not a move that's going to make us contenders, and he's not young enough to hope for any upside. We're basically just hoping he can get back to what he was. I'd rather go younger, even if the impact is slightly less. Getting Batum is doubling down on mediocrity in my opinion.

      The Portland player I want the most (after aldridge) is Meyers Leonard. If taking Batum is the price tag to get Leonard, then I probably figure out a way to get it done.
      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

      Comment


      • #48
        ezz_bee wrote: View Post
        I pass, it's not a move that's going to make us contenders, and he's not young enough to hope for any upside. We're basically just hoping he can get back to what he was. I'd rather go younger, even if the impact is slightly less. Getting Batum is doubling down on mediocrity in my opinion.

        The Portland player I want the most (after aldridge) is Meyers Leonard. If taking Batum is the price tag to get Leonard, then I probably figure out a way to get it done.
        I would agree with you to some extent which is why I would not include any draft picks or DeMar or Lowry - basically valuable pieces.

        However, if you can get Batum for spare parts like Amir, Ross, and JJ, I think you do that.

        Comment


        • #49
          Joey wrote: View Post
          Whenever responses are started like that, I say it in my head like Dwight:
          That was the intent. Sadly, I couldn't find a meme of Dwight for "Batum is playing for France this year".
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Might as well just wait a year and let him be a fallback plan in free agency.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

            Comment


            • #51
              DanH wrote: View Post
              Might as well just wait a year and let him be a fallback plan in free agency.
              Next year's free agency is going to be crazy. So many teams going after the same players. Part of me wonders if it is the ideal time to try and acquire good players with longer deals that teams might be trying to move to make cap space.

              Then another part of me wonders if that is too Colangelo-esque move.

              Then the rest of my just cries that Casey hasn't been fired yet.
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

              Comment


              • #52
                If trading spare parts such as Ross, JJ, and Amir for Batum was the only move, I could see the correlations to Colangelo.

                However, I don't see such a deal as the only move. I would be trying to deal DeRozan for a high draft pick an a rotational player.

                DD to LA for #4/Young
                DD to Denver for #7/Chandler
                DD to Charlotte for #9/Henderson or Stephenson


                In my ideal fantasy world, this is what I'd like to see:

                PG: Lowry, GV
                SG: Chandler
                SF: Batum, Bruno
                PF: Thompson, Patterson
                C: JV, McGee, Bebe

                + 7&20

                I think Tristan Thompson is a good target at PF (garbage man and rebounder - capable of a double-double every night). He has been growing on me of late.

                I would also roll the dice on McGee if he is obtainable on a minimum contract.

                #7 would be Porzingis or Henzonja
                #20 would be Lucas (if big picked at 7) or Wood (if guard picked at 7)


                I think that team is better than what we saw this year and I also think that team has a much higher ceiling long term.



                I haven't put too much thought in to this. Happy to read the criticisms!

                Comment


                • #53
                  mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                  If trading spare parts such as Ross, JJ, and Amir for Batum was the only move, I could see the correlations to Colangelo.

                  However, I don't see such a deal as the only move. I would be trying to deal DeRozan for a high draft pick an a rotational player.

                  DD to LA for #4/Young
                  DD to Denver for #7/Chandler
                  DD to Charlotte for #9/Henderson or Stephenson


                  In my ideal fantasy world, this is what I'd like to see:

                  PG: Lowry, GV
                  SG: Chandler
                  SF: Batum, Bruno
                  PF: Thompson, Patterson
                  C: JV, McGee, Bebe

                  + 7&20

                  I think Tristan Thompson is a good target at PF (garbage man and rebounder - capable of a double-double every night). He has been growing on me of late.

                  I would also roll the dice on McGee if he is obtainable on a minimum contract.

                  #7 would be Porzingis or Henzonja
                  #20 would be Lucas (if big picked at 7) or Wood (if guard picked at 7)


                  I think that team is better than what we saw this year and I also think that team has a much higher ceiling long term.

                  I haven't put too much thought in to this. Happy to read the criticisms!
                  Yes, the Colangelo comment was more to any trade for Batum in a vacuum. That said, if we are going for aggressive roster changes, honestly don't know how you keep Lowry.

                  Lowry could land Sac #6 - Winslow, Russell or Henzonja would likely be my preferences in order.

                  DD could land Vonleh or Charlotte #9 (I would rather Vonleh than #9).

                  But if those 2 moves are made, does it make sense to trade for a player entering his 8th season, coming off torn ligaments in his shooting wrist?

                  If you move KL and DD, you basically need to go youth movement.

                  If you keep them, then trading for Batum is fine, but I wouldn't throw in a pick. GV, JJ, Ross, Lou, Amir combo could be good value. But such a move is a bit Colangelo esque ("accelerated rebuild").
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Axel wrote: View Post
                    Yes, the Colangelo comment was more to any trade for Batum in a vacuum. That said, if we are going for aggressive roster changes, honestly don't know how you keep Lowry.

                    Lowry could land Sac #6 - Winslow, Russell or Henzonja would likely be my preferences in order.

                    DD could land Vonleh or Charlotte #9 (I would rather Vonleh than #9).

                    But if those 2 moves are made, does it make sense to trade for a player entering his 8th season, coming off torn ligaments in his shooting wrist?

                    If you move KL and DD, you basically need to go youth movement.

                    If you keep them, then trading for Batum is fine, but I wouldn't throw in a pick. GV, JJ, Ross, Lou, Amir combo could be good value. But such a move is a bit Colangelo esque ("accelerated rebuild").
                    You're discussing things I have not even mentioned and then coming to the conclusion of accelerated rebuild due to the acquisition of Batum.

                    I would not trade Lowry because he is a much better player than DeRozan. I know the negative intangible arguments of Lowry but I am looking at talent, impact on the game, and a more stable contract situation. The raptors faired well without DeRozan earlier in the season.

                    You won't see the raptors trade both because that would be a total rebuild and step back. I don't think you see that happen. If you trade both then no way do you trade for Batum. Also no way you trade draft picks to get Batum unless you're switching 20 and 23. Other than that, no draft pick trade.

                    However in what I laid out you add more youth, better 2 way players on the wing, more rebounding while a stable of youth is developing at end of rotation or through new DLeague team. I'm not saying that would happen but the idea or theory behind it is what appeals to me.... Getting better short term while raising the ceiling and financial flexibility long term.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                      You're discussing things I have not even mentioned and then coming to the conclusion of accelerated rebuild due to the acquisition of Batum.

                      I would not trade Lowry because he is a much better player than DeRozan. I know the negative intangible arguments of Lowry but I am looking at talent, impact on the game, and a more stable contract situation. The raptors faired well without DeRozan earlier in the season.

                      You won't see the raptors trade both because that would be a total rebuild and step back. I don't think you see that happen. If you trade both then no way do you trade for Batum. Also no way you trade draft picks to get Batum unless you're switching 20 and 23. Other than that, no draft pick trade.

                      However in what I laid out you add more youth, better 2 way players on the wing, more rebounding while a stable of youth is developing at end of rotation or through new DLeague team. I'm not saying that would happen but the idea or theory behind it is what appeals to me.... Getting better short term while raising the ceiling and financial flexibility long term.
                      Bold 1 - what did I bring up that hasn't been mentioned? Honestly don't know what you are referring to.
                      Batum is an injured 27 yr old at $11M.
                      Ross is on the final year of his rookie deal.
                      JJ is on a team friendly contract of just $2.5M.

                      Trading youth and cap friendly deals for a potential injured player sounds a lot like a BC move. Batum is potentially the best player of the 3, but torn ligament in his shooting wrist is a serious concern to me. This past season, Batum scored less than Ross per game and has worse FG%, 3P%, eFG%, TS%. I would wager that Batum had more open looks playing with Aldridge, Lillard and Matthews than he'd get here with Lowry, JV (and DD - depending on whether he is moved in your scenario or not). If he returns to form, then yes, he's easily the best player of the 3, but that injury concern is very real (and the only reason that there is even a discussion about the possibility). There is no right answer when gambling on an injury, as we all have different views on it. Mine is to pass. If he bounces back this year, then like Dan H says, could be a free agent option while everyone else is chasing Durant.

                      Bold 2 - Lowry can be a better player, but he can also be a much worse player. We saw both this season. I want less variance in my best player. Also, the leadership he demonstrated in the playoffs was atrocious. That coupled with his history, makes me concerned about having his influence on the young players like JV and Bruno. Of the 2, I'd keep DD, but would shop them both.

                      Bold 3 - I hate the terms "total rebuild", "accelerated rebuild", etc. All of it is building. You never stop, so the "re" prefix is misleading and makes it always sound more negative, but it doesn't have to be. You can move pieces and improve. Very hard I know, but moving offensive "all-stars" for valuable two-way players and good young talent is the way to do it. I'm tired of having players who only play on 1 side of the court. We need guys who can defend and operate on offence. Lowry's defence has disappeared. His D on Beal was stupid in the playoffs. He knew he was in foul trouble and played like a person who was trying to foul out. Not very smart. DD has been better and I've come around to accept that he could be good in a different role (less shots, more passing) but his trade value is too good to ignore exploring.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Axel wrote: View Post
                        Bold 1 - what did I bring up that hasn't been mentioned? Honestly don't know what you are referring to.
                        Batum is an injured 27 yr old at $11M.
                        Ross is on the final year of his rookie deal.
                        JJ is on a team friendly contract of just $2.5M.

                        Trading youth and cap friendly deals for a potential injured player sounds a lot like a BC move. Batum is potentially the best player of the 3, but torn ligament in his shooting wrist is a serious concern to me. This past season, Batum scored less than Ross per game and has worse FG%, 3P%, eFG%, TS%. I would wager that Batum had more open looks playing with Aldridge, Lillard and Matthews than he'd get here with Lowry, JV (and DD - depending on whether he is moved in your scenario or not). If he returns to form, then yes, he's easily the best player of the 3, but that injury concern is very real (and the only reason that there is even a discussion about the possibility). There is no right answer when gambling on an injury, as we all have different views on it. Mine is to pass. If he bounces back this year, then like Dan H says, could be a free agent option while everyone else is chasing Durant.

                        Bold 2 - Lowry can be a better player, but he can also be a much worse player. We saw both this season. I want less variance in my best player. Also, the leadership he demonstrated in the playoffs was atrocious. That coupled with his history, makes me concerned about having his influence on the young players like JV and Bruno. Of the 2, I'd keep DD, but would shop them both.

                        Bold 3 - I hate the terms "total rebuild", "accelerated rebuild", etc. All of it is building. You never stop, so the "re" prefix is misleading and makes it always sound more negative, but it doesn't have to be. You can move pieces and improve. Very hard I know, but moving offensive "all-stars" for valuable two-way players and good young talent is the way to do it. I'm tired of having players who only play on 1 side of the court. We need guys who can defend and operate on offence. Lowry's defence has disappeared. His D on Beal was stupid in the playoffs. He knew he was in foul trouble and played like a person who was trying to foul out. Not very smart. DD has been better and I've come around to accept that he could be good in a different role (less shots, more passing) but his trade value is too good to ignore exploring.
                        What I did not bring up was the idea of trading both Lowry and DeRozan then trading for Batum after those two have been traded. That would be stupid.

                        Ross and JJ are not needle movers despite contracts.

                        Batum does a lot more than score. He rebounds, creates, and defends. For the sake of spare parts, wouldn't it be nice to pursue Batum, assuming he bounces back, with his Bird Rights? What is the consequence if he doesn't pan out? You lost Ross who sadly is showing he might not be worth having beyond his rookie contract anyways and JJ who is going to be renounced in the pursuit of any big free agent. You then renounce Batum and you're back to where you would have been anyways.

                        Your concerns on Lowry are definitely legit. I think you get more for a DD trade. Lowry isn't returning a lottery pick and is not a long term answer. If you're worrying about his influence on JV, after 3 years, I think it is done.

                        Regarding how to build, I am pretty sure the team I laid out is better than current team with more upside and more financial flexibility. I'm confused by the suggestion "you can move pieces and improve. Very hard I know, but moving offensive "all-stars" for valuable two-way players and good young talent is the way to do it...." Isn't that what I've done in my musings?

                        I think the trio of Chandler/Batum/Thompson/#7 offers a lot more than DD/Ross/Amir/JJ.... assuming any of it was ever possible which I'm 99% sure is not.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Honestly, i think if we're targeting batum, then that means we're staying on course and trying to contend. Which means, we're sticking with guys like lowry and derozan. And if that's the case, adding batum will not move the needle that much. He's a good fit on the blazers because he's got go-to guys like LA and Lillard and one of the best spot up 3 shooters in the league, wes matthews, camped out in the corners.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Pong wrote: View Post
                            Honestly, i think if we're targeting batum, then that means we're staying on course and trying to contend. Which means, we're sticking with guys like lowry and derozan. And if that's the case, adding batum will not move the needle that much. He's a good fit on the blazers because he's got go-to guys like LA and Lillard and one of the best spot up 3 shooters in the league, wes matthews, camped out in the corners.
                            I would not be interested in Batum if both Lowry and DD stayed.

                            As for Portland, Aldridge might be gone soon. Matthews is a FA coming off one of worst injuries possible for bball player. Things are never remain the same forever.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                              I would not be interested in Batum if both Lowry and DD stayed.

                              As for Portland, Aldridge might be gone soon. Matthews is a FA coming off one of worst injuries possible for bball player. Things are never remain the same forever.
                              Well what I mean is Lowry/DD/JV is not anywhere close to Lillard/Wes Matthews/LA. Batum's underrated playmaking abilities will be lost playing with these guys.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                                What I did not bring up was the idea of trading both Lowry and DeRozan then trading for Batum after those two have been traded. That would be stupid.

                                Ross and JJ are not needle movers despite contracts.

                                Batum does a lot more than score. He rebounds, creates, and defends. For the sake of spare parts, wouldn't it be nice to pursue Batum, assuming he bounces back, with his Bird Rights? What is the consequence if he doesn't pan out? You lost Ross who sadly is showing he might not be worth having beyond his rookie contract anyways and JJ who is going to be renounced in the pursuit of any big free agent. You then renounce Batum and you're back to where you would have been anyways.

                                Your concerns on Lowry are definitely legit. I think you get more for a DD trade. Lowry isn't returning a lottery pick and is not a long term answer. If you're worrying about his influence on JV, after 3 years, I think it is done.

                                Regarding how to build, I am pretty sure the team I laid out is better than current team with more upside and more financial flexibility. I'm confused by the suggestion "you can move pieces and improve. Very hard I know, but moving offensive "all-stars" for valuable two-way players and good young talent is the way to do it...." Isn't that what I've done in my musings?

                                I think the trio of Chandler/Batum/Thompson/#7 offers a lot more than DD/Ross/Amir/JJ.... assuming any of it was ever possible which I'm 99% sure is not.
                                But if Batum's injury prevents him from being a good shooter, he doesn't score, and then he is basically providing the same as JJ for an extra $10M. JJ rebounds, defends and largely played well on offence. I would rather JJ at $2.5M to flip to a contender for a young piece than Batum at $11M with injury risk.

                                Lowry's impact on JV may or may not be too late, but Bruno and any young players coming in don't need a "me-first" leader. With your proposal landing multiple picks, we need a good environment for young players and I just don't see Lowry providing that.

                                I think Chandler/Batum/Thompson aren't exactly young. Chandler and Batum are both going to be 28 - not much upside there. Plus both are injury concerns (Chandler has only played 70 games in 3 of 8 seasons and 3 times less than 45 games). Thompson offers very little on the offensive side except rebounding.

                                In your proposed lineup of KL, WC, NB, TT and JV - who is going to stretch the floor at all? Chandler isn't a great perimeter shooter. Batum is a risk as discussed. TT and JV both need to be close to the rim. Basically, KL is the only one to scare a defence. As bad as people think Ross's shooting has been, 37% is a lot better than 34% and 32% from Chandler & Batum. I would take 37% with limited upside over 32%/34% with none.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X