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Anyone else feel a Lowry/Lawson swap coming?

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  • draps
    replied
    thead wrote: View Post
    In a league that is so highly skilled those three things are what separate players from the rest of the pack often times. There are a tonne of "skilled" players all over the world. I'm actually shocked that those three things don't mean shit, when they are often the first three qualities I look for when assessing players/dreaming up trades
    i think it means something when they're the same size as other players at their position, but when you're smaller you need to have those attributes just to keep your head above water

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  • thead
    replied
    Bourgozie wrote: View Post
    As for points like "tenacity/intensity/phsyicality" ... Quite frankly that doesn't mean shit to me. Qualities like those don't add or subtract to how good a player is, atleast in my books
    In a league that is so highly skilled those three things are what separate players from the rest of the pack often times. There are a tonne of "skilled" players all over the world. I'm actually shocked that those three things don't mean shit, when they are often the first three qualities I look for when assessing players/dreaming up trades

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  • Pele
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    I can see Sacramento and Denver making a deal such that #6 goes to Denver, and Lawson goes to the Kings. Kings are a mess.. but they have Karl who'll want some sort of stability. Lawson was his PG in Denver.. makes a lot of sense to me.

    Perhaps MU can get involved to make the deal work.. but I don't think Lawson's coming to Toronto.
    Kings went with Collison....so I'm thinking they'll try to stay with him.

    I wouldn't mind seeing Lawson and Lowry share PG duties. Let's say, Lawson/Gallinari for Vasquez/Lou...

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  • Mindlessness
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    I severely dislike the idea of lumping in all analytically oriented thinking individuals based on a few.

    Very few analytics people I know would refute the existence of leadership/grit etc. But, like me, many insist that those things, those intangibles, only matter if they tangibly impact the game - and since we can measure tangible impacts, we can measure the things to some degree. Lowry's crazy good impact stats, even in this severe down year for him, suggest that his leadership/intangibles are as tangible and valuable as ever.
    Yup, it's ridiculous. There are more than enough analytical types who agree with intangibles making an impact.

    Kyle Dubas, the Leafs co-GM, is an example of that. He's pro-analytics, but he's said in the past (can't find the link), but deems that intangibles can be found in the stats. His example I think was boardwork, as in the puck battles along the boards, and how grit might affect that.

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  • DanH
    replied
    I severely dislike the idea of lumping in all analytically oriented thinking individuals based on a few.

    Very few analytics people I know would refute the existence of leadership/grit etc. But, like me, many insist that those things, those intangibles, only matter if they tangibly impact the game - and since we can measure tangible impacts, we can measure the things to some degree. Lowry's crazy good impact stats, even in this severe down year for him, suggest that his leadership/intangibles are as tangible and valuable as ever.

    Leave a comment:


  • KeonClark
    replied
    Bourgozie wrote: View Post
    He doesn't take charges every game, this isn't last season. Even if he did, his overall defense is horrible, so that literally means nothing.

    He gets to the line more/shoots a higher percentage yes, however he also attempts more field goals than Lawson and shoots a lower fg %

    He does rebound the ball better, i'll give you that.

    But Lawson's strength in comparison to Lowry is his playmaking ability, especially in the pick & roll, and his overall higher IQ. You know, strengths that great point guards should possess.

    As for points like "tenacity/intensity/phsyicality" ... Quite frankly that doesn't mean shit to me. Qualities like those don't add or subtract to how good a player is, atleast in my books
    I knew without question you'd come back with leadership/intensity/physicality isn't shit, that's what the new age analytical kids like to spout. its not tangible, you can't put a number on it. Well, I watched larry bird. I watched prime michael jordan. I also watched vince carter, if you know what I mean. You tell me its not tangible, I tell you its a key ingredient to seperating "stars" from champions.

    As far as assists per 36 minutes go, put ty lawson in dwane caseys system for 82 games. Enough said.

    If you really think switching kyle lowry out for ty friggin lawson would benefit this team I suggest you truly look at human nature, and team dynamics. You bring in just as inconsistent a point guard if not more, who really can't shoot all that well and plays with no alpha dog intensity. This doesn't benefit us now or in the future.

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  • KHD
    replied
    caccia wrote: View Post
    Mr. Ujiri is a loyal fellow. I think this trade is a definite possibility, since he knows Lawson and what he can do. The signs that Coach Casey and Kyle Lowry were not always on the same page this last season are disturbing. One of the two may have to go, otherwise you (as a general manager) are inviting dissension, which can devastate a team.
    eh, you know what devastates a team? having Dwane "The Rock (pounder)" Casey as the coach. I would hope Ujiri is smart enough to get rid of the real anchor on this team before making such a seemingly lateral move.

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  • caccia
    replied
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    It would work perfectly contractually. Ty Lawson had his best year under Masai. Masai knows better anyone just how good he is. He is best judge of his character than any other GM.

    Ty Lawson is more of a pass first point(averaged 9.6 assist) than Lowry but, is still a very good scorer. He also takes better care of his body. Only one year but is younger than Lowry. Also he reminds me of TJ Ford.
    Mr. Ujiri is a loyal fellow. I think this trade is a definite possibility, since he knows Lawson and what he can do. The signs that Coach Casey and Kyle Lowry were not always on the same page this last season are disturbing. One of the two may have to go, otherwise you (as a general manager) are inviting dissension, which can devastate a team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bourgozie
    replied
    He doesn't take charges every game, this isn't last season. Even if he did, his overall defense is horrible, so that literally means nothing.

    He gets to the line more/shoots a higher percentage yes, however he also attempts more field goals than Lawson and shoots a lower fg %

    He does rebound the ball better, i'll give you that.

    But Lawson's strength in comparison to Lowry is his playmaking ability, especially in the pick & roll, and his overall higher IQ. You know, strengths that great point guards should possess.

    As for points like "tenacity/intensity/phsyicality" ... Quite frankly that doesn't mean shit to me. Qualities like those don't add or subtract to how good a player is, atleast in my books

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    takes charges every game, Gets to the line more, makes a higher percentage, leadership/tenacity/intensity/phsyicality, rebounds the ball much better, gets more steals..
    so plays basketball better?

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    Bourgozie wrote: View Post
    You didn't answer my question ... What does lowry do better than Lawson?
    takes charges every game, Gets to the line more, makes a higher percentage, leadership/tenacity/intensity/phsyicality, rebounds the ball much better, gets more steals..

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  • Bourgozie
    replied
    You didn't answer my question ... What does lowry do better than Lawson?

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  • Kuh
    replied
    tDotted wrote: View Post
    Why leave out the assists per game? And none of those numbers are career lows for Lowry so he has been worse than this before lol. Anyways, a Lowry for Lawson would be one of the most pointless trades in NBA history; for both sides.
    Lowry - 9.4 assists/48 minutes, Lawson - 13.0 assists/48 minutes

    The assists show the point of the trade would be what it does for the players around them. There is a pretty dramatic difference in play styles between Lowry and Lawson. Both of them are very good in their own way. It would feel very different having one or other other as your point guard and team mate.

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  • tDotted
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Oh is it??

    Kyle Lowry, BRUTAL second half: 15.6 points, six rebounds and 2.7 turnovers on 34.6 minutes per game in 2015. That included 37.6 percent shooting from the field and 32.6 percent from deep. Those would be career-lows across the board

    Ty Lawson, ALL SEASON: 15.2 points, 3 rebounds and 2.5 turnovers on 35.5 minutes per game. That includes 43.6 percent shooting from the field and 34.1 percent from deep.

    So there you have it, Kyle Lowry at his absolute worst is about equal regular Ty Lawson. Let's not pull up Kyle Lowrys ALL SEASON numbers, which should really be what matters anyway.

    People that say we'd be "selling high" on Lowry...uhhh actually that's the definition of selling low, as the playoffs was his worst stretch of basketball in 2 years. There's zero point in making a lateral or less than lateral move on Lowry. He's being overused in our system, what he is, is a borderline all star, CLEAR CUT NUMBER ONE point guard, and a valuable asset. He's most definitely a second or third banana on a champion, but thats not his fault, and trading him doesn't bring us any closer to that title.
    Why leave out the assists per game? And none of those numbers are career lows for Lowry so he has been worse than this before lol. Anyways, a Lowry for Lawson would be one of the most pointless trades in NBA history; for both sides.

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  • distorsun
    replied
    Good analysis + Lawson is not the type of guy I want around my locker room.
    But how would you go about getting that 1st BANANA ?

    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Oh is it??

    Kyle Lowry, BRUTAL second half: 15.6 points, six rebounds and 2.7 turnovers on 34.6 minutes per game in 2015. That included 37.6 percent shooting from the field and 32.6 percent from deep. Those would be career-lows across the board

    Ty Lawson, ALL SEASON: 15.2 points, 3 rebounds and 2.5 turnovers on 35.5 minutes per game. That includes 43.6 percent shooting from the field and 34.1 percent from deep.

    So there you have it, Kyle Lowry at his absolute worst is about equal regular Ty Lawson. Let's not pull up Kyle Lowrys ALL SEASON numbers, which should really be what matters anyway.

    People that say we'd be "selling high" on Lowry...uhhh actually that's the definition of selling low, as the playoffs was his worst stretch of basketball in 2 years. There's zero point in making a lateral or less than lateral move on Lowry. He's being overused in our system, what he is, is a borderline all star, CLEAR CUT NUMBER ONE point guard, and a valuable asset. He's most definitely a second or third banana on a champion, but thats not his fault, and trading him doesn't bring us any closer to that title.

    Leave a comment:

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