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WTF Happened? (Raptors offense)

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  • #16
    Scraptor wrote: View Post
    Scouting happened.

    You can beat bad teams even after being scouted, which we did, but good teams make adjustments. Especially when they see you four straight games.

    It's like Tyson said, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Yes we had bad habits that were reinforced through differing levels of accountability (hell or high water), but we reverted to those bad habits because got punched in the face and had no counter.
    Scouting or not. Team get better at PnR and motion, they don't abandon it for ISO because of defenses.

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    • #17
      Scraptor wrote: View Post
      Vasquez pulled plenty of YOLO shit in 2014 too. People just remember it less because he got hot at the end.

      Besides, not sure how we can totally blame Lou when Casey gave him 100% carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. The guy is an expiring and in a contract year, meaning he's not necessarily a part of our future and he's also looking to get his. But instead of reining in his worst habits, we encouraged them.

      If you've got alcoholic friends you don't give them an open bar and keys to drive.
      The funny thing is, there were some quarters where Lou played traditional PG, or off the ball and got good assists, created space, used his speed to get help defence and dish off....times when Lou looked like he could fit it real nice into winning team system.

      I blame the coaching for not standing pat on the winning style of "moving the ball". Heck, the Raps were still hot on their winning in the first third of the season when I started yelling "FUCK" every time a quarter ended with a Lou iso.

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      • #18
        raptors999 wrote: View Post
        Scouting or not. Team get better at PnR and motion, they don't abandon it for ISO because of defenses.
        The ISO killed us.....it was hard to watch. Not just Lou either, but Demar, Kyle.....all part of Casey's "Go to your vets and let them do their thing...." mentality.

        Demar is touted as being real good at getting to the line....that just means he fucking isn't passing to an open PP or TR, or under to Jonas.

        Again, this crap wouldn't happen on a Pops team....

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        • #19
          KHD wrote: View Post
          that doesn't explain why we switched from good basketball to pure iso jumpshits for this entire season. Remember the "Offense is flawed" thread back in the early season?

          That also doesn't explain our identity crisis....

          Worked damn hard last year to develop a reputation for gritty, determined, relentless defence. Other teams started to respect us....no Pierce disrespect going on. It seemed that Casey was finally free from Colangelo's dream of "Phoenix-style" fast paced offence, and could implement what he was known for.....TOUGH DEFENCE. It finally seemed like we had an identity....hard-ass underdogs who played with a chip on their shoulder.

          I'm thinking once Kyle got his....that is an All-star vote, article on Grantland, NBA insider with Shaq and Charles, all the love Canada could gush.....Kyle cashed in and lost his drive to prove himself.

          A lot of this is on Casey, for not benching his ass, yelling in his face and not letting him know that he better damn well keep his anger on, or next year won't be no Cinderella show....

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          • #20
            Lou's value is in our ability to sign and trade him this off-season. He played himself into a 6 to 8 million per year contract...and there will be teams looking for a gunner this off-season. Chicago, Cleveland, Portland etc... I have a feeling our offense will get better just because of that
            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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            • #21
              I remember Casey saying that he wanted to reduce turnovers after the Brooklyn serious. Hence low ball movement. One thing we do know for sure is that it was by design, because Casey himself admitted to doing so.

              We rushed to a hot start and Casey kept hoping we'd back to that success in playoffs. I honestly think our hot start was the worst thing to happen to us. Guys became cocky and their belief in a flawed strategy strengthened.
              "Stay steamy"

              - Kobe

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              • #22
                consmap wrote: View Post
                I remember Casey saying that he wanted to minimize turnovers, which might have caused a decrease in ball movement. Also, during the time after the Rudy Gay trade the team didn't have an established "guy" that they could really go to. Once DD and Lowry started getting attention for All Star type play, things began to change.

                On top of this the team acquired Lou Williams. Then the guards starting thinking "If Lou can do, I can too!!!"

                *clank*
                I agree. At the beginning of the season, Raps were one of the teams that have few TOs, hence leading to the hot start. But with few TOs came reduced ball movement and most of the wins came with Lou and the gang making 3's. Then the rest of the league figured them out, they failed to adjust.

                And now, it seems that the race to the finals is wide open, with really great playoff games. Raptors were a disgrace.

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                • #23
                  The fact that there was no real structure to the offense puts a lot of this on the shoulders of the coach n staff. But the playoffs imo showed that the Raps dont really have a guy that can create on the fly, therefore meaning imo that they do not have a 1st or possibly even a 2nd tier player as when push came to shove everyone drowned in their hero ball iso attempts. My conclusion is coaching staff needs as much of a retooling as the roster.

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                  • #24
                    Liberal wrote: View Post
                    The fact that there was no real structure to the offense puts a lot of this on the shoulders of the coach n staff. But the playoffs imo showed that the Raps dont really have a guy that can create on the fly, therefore meaning imo that they do not have a 1st or possibly even a 2nd tier player as when push came to shove everyone drowned in their hero ball iso attempts. My conclusion is coaching staff needs as much of a retooling as the roster.
                    How many players can create on the fly? Kobe was a great ISO scorer and he never exited the first round without Shaq or Gasol. How far can the Rockets go with Harden driving and kicking before he breaks down. Wade is one of the best and he couldn't lift the Heat alone.

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                    • #25
                      raptors999 wrote: View Post
                      How many players can create on the fly? Kobe was a great ISO scorer and he never exited the first round without Shaq or Gasol. How far can the Rockets go with Harden driving and kicking before he breaks down. Wade is one of the best and he couldn't lift the Heat alone.
                      Michael Jordan never won until Phil Jackson brought the triangle offense and Scottie Pippen emerged.

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                      • #26
                        To add to my previous post:

                        Dwane Casey: should stick to being a defensive coordinator or go coach college

                        DeMar DeRozan: more and more he is looking like Corey Maggette, a guy that should be getting all his points by driving to the basket, getting to the free throw line and post ups. He isnt a fascilitator of offense and will only continue to hirt us if he is our best offensive weapon.

                        Kyle Lowry: needs to play with someone who can be a fascilitator of offense in order to take some pressure off of him to allow him to be the pitbull on defense and allow him to be a spot up shooter with open shots. With him as the main guy we will fail period

                        All in all, I think DeRozan needs to start focusing his offseasons on becoming a great defender n better 3 point shooter because his days as a #1 are over imo. This roster needs a Kevin Durant added to it to be a "potential" contender so make of that what you will. Very important offseason and I feel there is no room for complacency and hopefully Masai feels the same way.

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                        • #27
                          raptors999 wrote: View Post
                          How many players can create on the fly? Kobe was a great ISO scorer and he never exited the first round without Shaq or Gasol. How far can the Rockets go with Harden driving and kicking before he breaks down. Wade is one of the best and he couldn't lift the Heat alone.
                          Many players can get you buckets. Are you tellng me that the Wizards offense completely shut the Raptors down? Cause what I saw was one team facing a bunch of individuals and those individuals couldnt do anything of significance when it mattered. It was the same crap every play, no change in approach just a different wing player trying to execute terrible plays n ideas. Not to mention how many times did they try to make post scoring a priority? They lost that bad because they were that bad. They couldnt even win one game. When the Wizards played with that playoff intensity the Raptors crumbled. They lack a 1st or 2nd tier fascilitator, and in the NBA that usually comes from a point guard or a point forward.

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                          • #28
                            Edit

                            Liberal wrote: View Post
                            Many players can get you buckets. Are you tellng me that the Wizards [defense] completely shut the Raptors down? Cause what I saw was one team facing a bunch of individuals and those individuals couldnt do anything of significance when it mattered. It was the same crap every play, no change in approach just a different wing player trying to execute terrible plays n ideas. Not to mention how many times did they try to make post scoring a priority? They lost that bad because they were that bad. They couldnt even win one game. When the Wizards played with that playoff intensity the Raptors crumbled. They lack a 1st or 2nd tier fascilitator, and in the NBA that usually comes from a point guard or a point forward or at times a first class coach and there havent been many of those in history.

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                            • #29
                              hahahaaa

                              you guys, honestly.

                              wtf is right.... as in, wtf is up with a collective group of people who;

                              1. refuse to believe the players on their favorite team might not be as good as they had hoped.
                              2. seem to think that, not only is the head coach bad, he is actually less intelligent than anyone on this forum, AND most casual fans, and that this must be the case as there is no way in hell the players themselves can be held responsible for the shit you watched for 50 games this year.

                              Honestly guys.... think about it.

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                              • #30
                                Superjudge wrote: View Post
                                hahahaaa

                                you guys, honestly.

                                wtf is right.... as in, wtf is up with a collective group of people who;

                                1. refuse to believe the players on their favorite team might not be as good as they had hoped.
                                2. seem to think that, not only is the head coach bad, he is actually less intelligent than anyone on this forum, AND most casual fans, and that this must be the case as there is no way in hell the players themselves can be held responsible for the shit you watched for 50 games this year.

                                Honestly guys.... think about it.
                                hahahaaa

                                superjudge, honestly.

                                wtf is right.... as in, wtf is up with the person who;

                                1. refuses to read entire threads where people are clamouring for talent influx
                                2. seems to think that, not only is the head coach infallible, but that the collective group of posters here excluding himself is seemingly more stupid than any thought that has ever passed through that coach's mind, forget his entire body of coaching, and that the players and only the players could have been responsible for everything and anything that happened on the basketball court through those 50 shitty games he watched this year.

                                Honestly superjudge... think about it.

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