Taj Gibson

[2KJ]

It seems you distrust analytics/metrics because you don't understand their intent. There is no metric that says it predicts how a player will perform in a different role - there are some that provide hints, but no more than that. Metrics like net ratings and RPM are measures of how a player performed, in the role they were in. Neither make claims that a player will carry over that performance to a different usage or role. If anyone uses them that way, distrust that person, not the analytics.

It's true - Patterson and Hansbrough would likely struggle big time if forced to start full time. Gibson would almost certainly be an upgrade on any potential use of them as the starter. And by a lot if he returned to his performance of a couple years ago.

My point was that I disagree with the statement saying that Taj is worse than TT/2Pat/Hans just because those stats say so.

[otiswolf1]

I would do that trade in a heartbeat.

Taj is nice with the other pieces around him namely gasol, rose, butler and noah. Starting for the raptors would be a different story with more defensive focus on gibson's game could shut him down. Need more the Gibson. Maybe gibson and noah combo deal

[caccia]

When people want to acquire Gibson, it is not this year's Gibson, who struggled a lot due to a couple injuries and a less solid spot in the rotation, but last year's Gibson, who was a very good defender. Last year Gibson was a top 10 RPM PF and a top 5 DRPM PF. This year he was well below average, for whatever reasons.

That would make sense if his numbers this past year were a significant drop-off from his career averages, but they are not, at least for the more traditional metrics like points and rebounds per game. The 2013-14 season was probably his best in the league, except for shooting percentage. The past season was his first shooting over 50%.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...986/taj-gibson

[MACK11]

Taj is nice with the other pieces around him namely gasol, rose, butler and noah. Starting for the raptors would be a different story with more defensive focus on gibson's game could shut him down. Need more the Gibson. Maybe gibson and noah combo deal

Noah was horrible for the Bulls this season mainly due to injury and I dont see how he's magically going to get healthy

[caccia]

My point was that I disagree with the statement saying that Taj is worse than TT/2Pat/Hans just because those stats say so.

These stats are catchalls in some ways, so a lot depends on what role the player has on the team, what his individual strengths and weaknesses are, and what role he might fill on a new team. In the case of Gibson, some here have pointed out his ability to hit mid-range jumpers. Those shots are not valued on a Dwane Casey team. So you have to take that into consideration.

So if you need rebounding, Thompson is the best candidate of those I listed, Hansbrough second. If you need a glue guy who makes other players around him better, Patterson and Hansbrough are very good. If you need three-point shooting, Patterson is the best of the four players. I only listed four that are in the conversation right now. Amir Johnson's status is uncertain.

[Mack North]

Taj Gibson is not the starting PF on a championship team. Solid player, but I only want him if he's backing up. If he's a starter, I hope we draft our PF of the future. Hard to get at 20, but Kevon Looney looks promising.

[planetmars]

Good PF's are rare.. now a days a PF needs to be versatile enough to shoot 3's, rebound, and defend multiple positions.

Not too many guys like that in the NBA.

Taj is not a star, but he can defend well and can grab rebounds. He can't shoot 3's but if he was available I'd definitely go for it.

[DanH]

That would make sense if his numbers this past year were a significant drop-off from his career averages, but they are not, at least for the more traditional metrics like points and rebounds per game. The 2013-14 season was probably his best in the league, except for shooting percentage. The past season was his first shooting over 50%.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...986/taj-gibson

Yeah, I'm not talking about his individual stats and have no interest in doing so. Last year was a significant drop off from his career (well, last half decade) impact stats. Which are ultimately all that matters.

[raptors999]

Gibson has the same ankle problems as Amir. He's a better perimeter defender but otherwise replacing Amir seems to be a wash. Also at 9-9.5M he is more expensive than what Amir would cost

[DanH]

These stats are catchalls in some ways, so a lot depends on what role the player has on the team, what his individual strengths and weaknesses are, and what role he might fill on a new team. In the case of Gibson, some here have pointed out his ability to hit mid-range jumpers. Those shots are not valued on a Dwane Casey team. So you have to take that into consideration.

So if you need rebounding, Thompson is the best candidate of those I listed, Hansbrough second. If you need a glue guy who makes other players around him better, Patterson and Hansbrough are very good. If you need three-point shooting, Patterson is the best of the four players. I only listed four that are in the conversation right now. Amir Johnson's status is uncertain.

You should really not ever use on court ratings when comparing between teams, or even when comparing a bench player to a starter on the same team. Practically meaningless without context. Have to use an adjusted version, whether that's APM, RAPM, or the newer RPM, or a version of WOWY.

[caccia]

How about ESPN's "real plus-minus" stat? I am still comparing among teams, however, since the subject is free agency for Gibson versus other players. It gives you something to think about.

Hansbrough 2.46

A. Johnson 1.82

T. Thompson 1.13

Patterson 0.34

Biyombo -.99

Ed Davis -1.16

Gibson -1.35

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rp...RPM/position/6

[Mess]

Shit...why don't we just start Psycho T then?

Or better yet trade for Cody Zeller who is #5 above LA, Blake, Ibaka, Love and Pau.

[DanH]

How about ESPN's "real plus-minus" stat? I am still comparing among teams, however, since the subject is free agency for Gibson versus other players. It gives you something to think about.

Hansbrough 2.46

A. Johnson 1.82

T. Thompson 1.13

Patterson 0.34

Biyombo -.99

Ed Davis -1.16

Gibson -1.35

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rp...RPM/position/6

This was my point. This year was a bad year for Gibson, as I said, and the year before he was a +3.5 or so.

And again, comparing across roles simply doesn't work. You can't take RPM of a bench player and project that into a starting role.

[Primer]

Gibson has the same ankle problems as Amir. He's a better perimeter defender but otherwise replacing Amir seems to be a wash. Also at 9-9.5M he is more expensive than what Amir would cost

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Amir got a deal for greater than $9.5M. With the cap going up, that will be the new range for fringe starters, especially capable big men. If TT is going to get a near max deal then surely Amir's contract will be in the ball park.

[S.R.]

My first thought was "Taj Gibson? Not a bad Amir replacement." Then I realized Taj Gibson is two years older than Amir Johnson - he's turning 30 this summer. Kind of weird to replace your worn down 28 year old PF with a 30 year old on a brand new contract unless you're in win-now mode, isn't it?