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  • HORNS Offense

    Lately on these RR Forums I've seen alot of talk about Nick Nurse and his utilization (or lack thereof) of the HORNS offence. I honestly had no clue what kind of offence this was and had never heard of it either, so here are a couple videos from BBallBreakdown for anyone else like me which explains how HORNS offence works.





    From what I've learned from watching these, I can't really recall the Raptors using this offence very often, especially into the latter parts of the season when ISO ball became predominant. When the team did use it they were relatively successful, so why did they stop?

  • #2
    GinobilisBaldSpot wrote: View Post
    Lately on these RR Forums I've seen alot of talk about Nick Nurse and his utilization (or lack thereof) of the HORNS offence. I honestly had no clue what kind of offence this was and had never heard of it either, so here are a couple videos from BBallBreakdown for anyone else like me which explains how HORNS offence works.





    From what I've learned from watching these, I can't really recall the Raptors using this offence very often, especially into the latter parts of the season when ISO ball became predominant. When the team did use it they were relatively successful, so why did they stop?
    In all honesty, I don't know. The offense is very effective though, and really shows a different side of Casey's book, doesn't it?
    Axel wrote:
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    KeonClark wrote:
    We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
    KeonClark wrote:
    I can't wait until the playoffs start.

    Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

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    • #3

      This is from last season but it does show how we used to run horns, I believe the general consensus was we stopped horns and started playing iso-ball to prevent turn overs...

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      • #4
        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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        • #5
          Yeah, we ran horns almost exclusively last year and it was a great fit for our personnel, allowing creative PnR type actions but with speed and off of either big man. The pre-action movement also opens the floor for the roll man and generates a ton of open 3's.

          This year we abandoned it. And the offence scored at a high rate still. But it may have come at a cost defensively - our primary ball handlers just had to work too hard in individual efforts to score on the offensive end, and our defensive scheme requires high energy pretty much constantly.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • #6
            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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            • #7
              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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              • #8


                The "Loop" or "Iverson" Cut does get some defenders a little out of ideal help position, but you're right that this essentially is just a high pick&roll.
                It's not just some random setting however – the Raptors are very particular about what type of pick&roll settings they run for different personnel groupings.

                Here, they overload the strong-side, which forces the weak-side help defender to essentially choose between the roll-man and Patterson in the slot.
                If the defender is late to tag, the roll-man almost always will be open. If the defender over-commits tagging, Patterson will be almost always open for 3 or in position to attack hard close-outs.

                So, yes, this isn't all that fancy of a play, but good offense doesn't have to be fancy if you take advantage of your players' strengths, which the Raptors do quite well here.
                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                • #9
                  This is a very sad thread.


                  (Most definitely not a dig at OP)

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                  • #10
                    Horns sets ain't needed when you play most efficient (offensive) system in the league. hey!

                    IS...

                    Last edited by rocwell; Wed May 20, 2015, 09:33 PM.

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                    • #11
                      good thread. interesting.
                      @sweatpantsjer

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                      • #12
                        DanH wrote: View Post
                        Yeah, we ran horns almost exclusively last year and it was a great fit for our personnel, allowing creative PnR type actions but with speed and off of either big man. The pre-action movement also opens the floor for the roll man and generates a ton of open 3's.

                        This year we abandoned it. And the offence scored at a high rate still. But it may have come at a cost defensively - our primary ball handlers just had to work too hard in individual efforts to score on the offensive end, and our defensive scheme requires high energy pretty much constantly.
                        This, and our offensive style this year led to constant bricks clanking off the rim for opponent run outs, while we run backwards on our heels. Not only does that give easy fast break points but tires out defenders just like your above point. People underrate how much your offence predicates your defence.
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                        • #13
                          Glad you guys find the post interesting. In the first YouTube link I posted, during the Lakers segment, the coach is quick to point out that sometimes they have Kobe at the high post and Pau Gasol goes down. NOW I KNOW DEMAR IS NO KOBE AND AMIR IS NO GASOL, but I'm almost pretty sure I've never seen the Raptors use a similar set. I think it would have a decent chance at being effective, especially now since Amir was hitting the 3 at a 40% clip this season, on low amount of attempts yes, but he would most likely be left wide open because help would be drawn into DeRozan. DeMar setting shop at the high post is nice because he can attack and draw fouls or use his improved playmaking to improvise. Or maybe I'm just rambling on like an idiot, idk you tell me.

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                          • #14
                            rocwell wrote: View Post
                            Horns sets ain't needed when you play 4th most efficient (offensive) system in the league. hey!
                            there corrected it for you
                            "Bruno?
                            Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                            He's terrible."

                            -Superjudge, 7/23

                            Hope you're wrong.

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                            • #15
                              KeonClark wrote: View Post
                              This, and our offensive style this year led to constant bricks clanking off the rim for opponent run outs, while we run backwards on our heels. Not only does that give easy fast break points but tires out defenders just like your above point. People underrate how much your offence predicates your defence.
                              I wish missed shots that resulted in defensive rebounds counted as turnovers. Then Casey might realize that even though ISO has lowered our turnover rate, it has in fact increased the other teams fast break chances and shot attempts. I think not taking into account missed shots makes that offensive efficiency stat pretty fucking useless. I think you're bang on that our change in offensive style was extremely detrimental to our defense. Another thing to consider is that ISO style of play usually results in quick shots with lots of shot clock left, so we're essentially playing defense a lot more than we used to because we don't take advantage of our offensive time by passing around looking for good shots.

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