What will be MU's next move?

[Primer]

You're right. He should fetch more.

Problem is the league is full of PGs. Few teams actually looking for one.

It wouldn't be my first choice but if that was the best I could do, I'd pull the trigger.

If the Raptors are a .500 or just below team, which they were for the majority of last season, then I don't think Lowry is going to be a happy camper and is only going to destroy whatever value he does have, in my opinion. Oh, especially with Casey coming back.

There is no rush to pull the trigger with Lowry, we have him locked up on a good price long term. We don't need to take a bad deal for him, especially considering he's the better of our two "stars" by far. If the offers aren't good yet then we just keep him and wait. He could be used in a big trade next offseason, or could lead our revamped squad to success.

Derozan there is a rush, if he's not gone by the trade deadline then we've lost our ability to trade him. If we can use Derozan to trade for a PF or a high draft pick, we can use our cap to sign Danny Green and come into next season looking better. Ideally the Ross for Gibson trade happens, and DD for #4 (Winslow) and Calderon. Use an exception to bring back De Colo.

Lineup:
PG: Lowry Vasquez Calderon
SG: Green De Colo (Pick 20?)
SF: Winslow Johnson Bruno
PF: Gibson Patterson (Pick 20?)
C: JV Bebe (Pick 20?)

That's a team that has a future and would be fun to watch. Do your best to deal Calderon for expiring bench pieces and 2nd round picks. After the season Vasquez, Johnson, and Gibson contracts expire and the cap jumps, so you can try to add a bigger piece in 2016 FA (Durant would look nice at PF with that squad). Throw in 2 more first round picks next year. This is my best example of how we could retool, be better next year, and be even better after that.

[mcHAPPY]

Does last season meaning early in 2013-14? I'm assuming you mean after the Gay trade though.

But no matter what the season, what exactly did you use to base your opinion on? The fact that it was going too well it had to come crashing down at some point?

I watched the games.

The style of play was unsustainable and would be exposed in the playoffs.

[Mess]

Does last season meaning early in 2013-14? I'm assuming you mean after the Gay trade though.

But no matter what the season, what exactly did you use to base your opinion on? The fact that it was going too well it had to come crashing down at some point?

[mcHAPPY]

And if they're better than a .500 team - like they actually were last year? What then?

Now I didn't think for a second that they'd maintain their early 63-win pace but you can't just write off the first 38% of the season because it doesn't jive with your opinion of the team. There are obvious reasons that partially explain why they ended poorly and even more conjecture. But to use the playoff sweep as undeniable proof that that's all this team ever was and ever will be is foolish.

Actually I was quite vocal and adamant from very early last season that the team was on the wrong path and the early success was not sustainable.

The last 62% of the season and playoff sweep merely confirmed it.

[Mess]

If the Raptors are a .500 or just below team, which they were for the majority of last season, then I don't think Lowry is going to be a happy camper and is only going to destroy whatever value he does have, in my opinion. Oh, especially with Casey coming back.

And if they're better than a .500 team - like they actually were last year? What then?

Now I didn't think for a second that they'd maintain their early 63-win pace but you can't just write off the first 38% of the season because it doesn't jive with your opinion of the team. There are obvious reasons that partially explain why they ended poorly and even more conjecture. But to use the playoff sweep as undeniable proof that that's all this team ever was and ever will be is foolish.

[special1]

I meant league is full of really good point guards right now with most teams set at that position.

I agree with the list of teams you have above.

The star-level thing is very subjective on what a star is and when a player becomes one. Teague, Kemba, Rose, IRving, Dragic, Wall, Curry, Paul, Conley, Bledsoe/Knight, Rubio, Holiday, Westbrook, Lillard, Bledsoe, Parker, Jackson/Jennings.

All those guys could be considered stars in my opinion then you have young players like MCW, Payton, and Exum who are still making their way.

It is a really deep time in PG positional history.

+1


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[Chr1s1anL]

Ty Lawson will end up in Houston. Masai will not tank with All-Star week in Toronto.

[mcHAPPY]

People keep saying this as received wisdom and it's kind of silly because of course there are lots of PGs in the league, but there aren't many star-level PGs in the league, and there are less than that which are available this offseason.

In free agency, there's Goran Dragic. (Brandon Knight and Reggie Jackson will both be retained by Phoenix and Detroit, respectively, since they're RFAs.) After Dragic the next best available point guards are the broken remnants of Rajon Rondo and maybe Sergio Rodriguez (probably the best PG playing in Europe right now).

With respect to trades, Ty Lawson is the only star-level point guard who's openly being shopped at this point, and Lowry would command a higher price than Lawson by far.

Teams looking for a PG upgrade: Sacramento, Houston, the Lakers, the Knicks, possibly Indiana.

There are less top-quality point guards than there are teams wanting to sign one. Yes, point guard is a deep position in the NBA right now - and a lot of teams have locked down quality point guards while the getting was good.

I meant league is full of really good point guards right now with most teams set at that position.

I agree with the list of teams you have above.

The star-level thing is very subjective on what a star is and when a player becomes one. Teague, Kemba, Rose, IRving, Dragic, Wall, Curry, Paul, Conley, Bledsoe/Knight, Rubio, Holiday, Westbrook, Lillard, Bledsoe, Parker, Jackson/Jennings.

All those guys could be considered stars in my opinion then you have young players like MCW, Payton, and Exum who are still making their way.

It is a really deep time in PG positional history.

[DogeLover1234]

Let me preface this by saying that i haven't read through many threads thoroughly recently.

I just saw that Phily hired Alvin Gentry as head coach. Orlando hired Skiles as head coach the other day, so this means that the only teams without a Head Coach right now are Chicago and Denver. If MU really wanted Thibs this appears like the best time to go after him. This goes back what direction you want to take with the team - rebuild or stand pat (leave the core as is, maybe go after a good 3 & D role player). I have my concerns about the guy, but he is pretty obviously the best candidate available right now.

[magoon]

You're right. He should fetch more.

Problem is the league is full of PGs. Few teams actually looking for one.

People keep saying this as received wisdom and it's kind of silly because of course there are lots of PGs in the league, but there aren't many star-level PGs in the league, and there are less than that which are available this offseason.

In free agency, there's Goran Dragic. (Brandon Knight and Reggie Jackson will both be retained by Phoenix and Detroit, respectively, since they're RFAs.) After Dragic the next best available point guards are the broken remnants of Rajon Rondo and maybe Sergio Rodriguez (probably the best PG playing in Europe right now).

With respect to trades, Ty Lawson is the only star-level point guard who's openly being shopped at this point, and Lowry would command a higher price than Lawson by far.

Teams looking for a PG upgrade: Sacramento, Houston, the Lakers, the Knicks, possibly Indiana.

There are less top-quality point guards than there are teams wanting to sign one. Yes, point guard is a deep position in the NBA right now - and a lot of teams have locked down quality point guards while the getting was good.

[mcHAPPY]

Lowry is a top 30 player in the league, back to back years, and he's signed long term at fantastic value. He's also the engine of our team and singlehandedly keeps us relevant. I'm not dealing him for that return. If we keep Lowry were still a playoff team, if we deal him were going to be terrible. Would have to be top 10 pick coming back, plus another useful player minimum. I'm not crazy about Jones, and I wouldn't expect to get much with the 18th and 32nd pick. Capella is interesting potential wise, but still not worth Lowry.

I'd take that return for Derozan. Although I'd prefer a lotto pick for Derozan than a player like Jones.

You're right. He should fetch more.

Problem is the league is full of PGs. Few teams actually looking for one.

It wouldn't be my first choice but if that was the best I could do, I'd pull the trigger.

If the Raptors are a .500 or just below team, which they were for the majority of last season, then I don't think Lowry is going to be a happy camper and is only going to destroy whatever value he does have, in my opinion. Oh, especially with Casey coming back.

[Primer]

18, 32, and one of Jones or Capela would do it for me.

18, 32, and one of Jones or Capela would do it for me.

Lowry is a top 30 player in the league, back to back years, and he's signed long term at fantastic value. He's also the engine of our team and singlehandedly keeps us relevant. I'm not dealing him for that return. If we keep Lowry were still a playoff team, if we deal him were going to be terrible. Would have to be top 10 pick coming back, plus another useful player minimum. I'm not crazy about Jones, and I wouldn't expect to get much with the 18th and 32nd pick. Capella is interesting potential wise, but still not worth Lowry.

I'd take that return for Derozan. Although I'd prefer a lotto pick for Derozan than a player like Jones.

[Uncle_Si]

To be completely honest, this was taken from an article on the main page written by Tim W. (here's the link: http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/...trade-targets/), so I'd guess you'd have to ask him that. I personally thought it was a good trade.

Either way, I don't see them giving up Capela and Terrence Jones for Lowry.

[GinobilisBaldSpot]

You really think Houston is that dumb?

To be completely honest, this was taken from an article on the main page written by Tim W. (here's the link: http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/...trade-targets/), so I'd guess you'd have to ask him that. I personally thought it was a good trade.

[Uncle_Si]

Not bad, but I like this more:

To Houston: Kyle Lowry
To Toronto: Terrence Jones, Corey Brewer, Clint Capela, and Kosta Papanikoloau

Why Houston does it: They finally get themselves a starting caliber PG to take them to true contender status.
Why Toronto does it: Even though there would be a huge gap at the staring PG spot, alot of other issues would be addressed. We get ourselves a starting PF replacement in Terrence Jones who I am a huge fan of (think a defensive minded PP), Corey Brewer is the wing defender we wish T Ross was and can hit the 3 relatively well, We get ourselves a very promising looking backup C in Capella (remember how monstrous this guy was in the last HOU-TOR matchup?). To be honest I don't know much about Papanikoloau, but he seems to be a forum favourite on here.

You really think Houston is that dumb?