Rebuild ... What does it really mean ??

[planetmars]

This year you can, but let's not forget about Orlando, Miami, Indiana, Washington, Milwaukee, Boston, and Philly...some of whom were injured, and some who are looking like they will have some long term success.

A full rebuild is going to be needed if we ever even hope to stay in the playoff race when those teams gain traction

Orlando, Milwaukee, Boston and Philly (especially) are all so young and neither has that talent that's mature enough to succeed in the playoffs in the next 2-3 years. Milwaukee is closest but the other three are long shots unless they can attract a top tier free agent.

Washington is older (Pierce can retire) but their core of Wall & Beal is beatable.

Indiana could rebuild.. They don't seem like they want Hibbert back and West is aging. George is a star but outside of him they are thin.

Miami is relying on Wade who's falling apart.

They are all teams to worry about but the Raptors aren't that much worse assuming you upgrade the PF spot and get a good wing (like I said in my post). Even if everyone was healthy the East still isn't very good (as compared to the West).

[OldSkoolCool]

Orlando, Milwaukee, Boston and Philly (especially) are all so young and neither has that talent that's mature enough to succeed in the playoffs in the next 2-3 years. Milwaukee is closest but the other three are long shots unless they can attract a top tier free agent.

Washington is older (Pierce can retire) but their core of Wall & Beal is beatable.

Indiana could rebuild.. They don't seem like they want Hibbert back and West is aging. George is a star but outside of him they are thin.

Miami is relying on Wade who's falling apart.

They are all teams to worry about but the Raptors aren't that much worse assuming you upgrade the PF spot and get a good wing (like I said in my post). Even if everyone was healthy the East still isn't very good (as compared to the West).

2-3 years is a lot closer than you think. Hell, Milwaukee put up a better fight against the Bulls than we did against the Wiz. Likewise Boston/Cavs

Washington has Porter and Gortat as well. They have some opportunity to grow

Miami also has Bosh and Dragic.

ATL will continue to succeed.

All of a sudden the east has Cavs/Bulls/Heat/Hawks/Wiz/Bucks/Indiana as soon as next season competing for playoffs...add in philly/boston/orlando and now we have three teams (inc. us) in the 2-3 years that are going home a little earlier than they should be.

[mcHAPPY]

Miami is very scary over the next 1-2 years.

Dragic, Wade, Demg, Bosh, Whiteside is a pretty good starting lineup.

[Rudy Bargnani]

This is a great discussion.

The concern I have and others have articulated is that 12 months from now derozan can leave for the highest bidder. Lowry will be 31 and the 76's, magic bucks and Celtics should be much improved teams.

If derozan walks with nothing in return coming back and a 31 year old injured Kyle Lowry is our saving grace, we will be looking at some really bad years ahead.

To me, it comes down to whether derozan will sign a reasonable extension this off season. If he's not interested and insists on becoming a free agent, or demands $100 million then I think the smart move is to be proactive and trade him for picks. If he leaves for nothing like bosh that is not a good scenario at all. And if derozan tells you today he's not re-signing then I think trading Lowry is the next domino to fall as you go all in on the rebuild.

Alternatively if derozan signs a reasonable extension and Lowry recaptures 2014 form I think success can follow with some key upgrades at the 3/4.

To me, this off season is going to be very very entertaining.

[Scraptor]

This is a great discussion.

The concern I have and others have articulated is that 12 months from now derozan can leave for the highest bidder. Lowry will be 31 and the 76's, magic bucks and Celtics should be much improved teams.

If derozan walks with nothing in return coming back and a 31 year old injured Kyle Lowry is our saving grace, we will be looking at some really bad years ahead.

To me, it comes down to whether derozan will sign a reasonable extension this off season. If he's not interested and insists on becoming a free agent, or demands $100 million then I think the smart move is to be proactive and trade him for picks. If he leaves for nothing like bosh that is not a good scenario at all. And if derozan tells you today he's not re-signing then I think trading Lowry is the next domino to fall as you go all in on the rebuild.

Alternatively if derozan signs a reasonable extension and Lowry recaptures 2014 form I think success can follow with some key upgrades at the 3/4.

To me, this off season is going to be very very entertaining.

Pretty sure we run into the same headache with DeRozan that we did with Lowry. You can only bump him up a fairly tiny amount, which he isn't going to agree to.

The salary in the first year of a veteran extension may be any amount up to 107.5% of the player's previous salary

So you have to gamble and hope that he signs for a reasonable amount like Kyle did. But I think that is way too big a gamble given that DeRozan is younger, plays a position of relative scarcity, and is likely to get paid far beyond his production, whereas Kyle's bump took him from really underpaid to fairly paid.

I believe Kyle can play at a Chauncey-Billups-type-level through the rest of his contract with us, as his game doesn't rely on athleticism. So I'm fine with trading Demar or trading both, but I think it would be a mistake to trade Kyle and retool around DeMar/Val.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

2-3 years is a lot closer than you think. Hell, Milwaukee put up a better fight against the Bulls than we did against the Wiz. Likewise Boston/Cavs

Washington has Porter and Gortat as well. They have some opportunity to grow

Miami also has Bosh and Dragic.

ATL will continue to succeed.

All of a sudden the east has Cavs/Bulls/Heat/Hawks/Wiz/Bucks/Indiana as soon as next season competing for playoffs...add in philly/boston/orlando and now we have three teams (inc. us) in the 2-3 years that are going home a little earlier than they should be.

Don't forget a healthy Detroit with SVG and another lottery pick.

[distorsun]

Damn...
The East is is gonna be a dog fight next yaer.

Don't forget a healthy Detroit with SVG and another lottery pick.

[Bear]

I will say this, give me a team with mudiay, winsow and johnson on the wings and a guy like thibs coaching and that team makes playoffs.

Give them a year or two and the east is afraid of them.

[mcHAPPY]

And LeBron doesn't return without a chance to win. Period.

They don't have a chance to win without adding young talent in the draft. Exclamation mark.

They don't have a chance to round out the roster without the ever valuable trade chips know as draft picks. *face palm*

Very interesting....

Rick Noland: LeBron James on Kyrie: "Part of the reason I decided to come back from the beginning was how special he was" Twitter @RickNoland

Cleveland Cavaliers, LeBron James, Kyrie Irving
- See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.THwNbh0e.dpuf

[Mess]

Cause we all know how much of a winner Kyrie was before this season.

I wonder where they're going to hide him on defense against GS.


Cleveland had five Top 5 picks in the last four drafts. But without Lebron coming back they would be nowhere near the Finals.

[mcHAPPY]

Cause we all know how much of a winner Kyrie was before this season.

I wonder where they're going to hide him on defense against GS.


Cleveland had five Top 5 picks in the last four drafts. But without Lebron coming back they would be nowhere near the Finals.

Like love and marriage, you can't have one without the other.

No LeBron, no winning. Nobody is denying that.

But no Kyrie, no LeBron.

Elite talent attracts elite talent.

You can forget elite free agent signings without elite talent to draw it.


And back full circle, where is toronto going to get that elite talent?
Trade? Nope.
Free agency? Bahaha.
The draft....and the closer to the top the higher the probability.

[MixxAOR]

Like love and marriage, you can't have one without the other.

No LeBron, no winning. Nobody is denying that.

But no Kyrie, no LeBron.

Elite talent attracts elite talent.

You can forget elite free agent signings without elite talent to draw it.


And back full circle, where is toronto going to get that elite talent?
Trade? Nope.
Free agency? Bahaha.
The draft....and the closer to the top the higher the probability.

Dangerous part of it is who is doing the leaving the home team part? Would we be like Cleveland when Lebron left or when he came back

[McRealistic]

Less than a year ago, 90% of the fans here were so high on this team and wanted continuity and thought the future is so bright.
Now, the same fans are looking around the league and thinking 90% of the team in the east are better than us.

Fans are asking for rebuild while they don't know what kind of rebuild they want. They have no idea how long it would take and what the risks are and ... Just look at this thread and you can see more than 10 different version of a rebuild, some think we will be competitive via rebuild within 2 years and some think rebuild means a 5-6 year commitment.

The good news is that situation was never as rosy as last fall and is not as bad as some make it to be now.
One thing for sure is the I don't see MU rushing to any decision.

MU stayed with Casey and that tells me he is not about to trade half of this team to rebuild. I guess we just have to wait and see.

[Axel]

Less than a year ago, 90% of the fans here were so high on this team and wanted continuity and thought the future is so bright.
Now, the same fans are looking around the league and thinking 90% of the team in the east are better than us.

Fans are asking for rebuild while they don't know what kind of rebuild they want. They have no idea how long it would take and what the risks are and ... Just look at this thread and you can see more than 10 different version of a rebuild, some think we will be competitive via rebuild within 2 years and some think rebuild means a 5-6 year commitment.

The good news is that situation was never as rosy as last fall and is not as bad as some make it to be now.
One thing for sure is the I don't see MU rushing to any decision.

MU stayed with Casey and that tells me he is not about to trade half of this team to rebuild. I guess we just have to wait and see.

I'm sorry but this post is complete bullshit. Even if we had access to trade offers to know potential returns on deals, the amount of variables in any plan makes it completely impossible to predict time frame. Any GM who is considering significant moves would likely have mapped out every scenario post here and then some, all with different directions and contingencies and varying time frames.

[OldSkoolCool]

Less than a year ago, 90% of the fans here were so high on this team and wanted continuity and thought the future is so bright.
Now, the same fans are looking around the league and thinking 90% of the team in the east are better than us.

Fans are asking for rebuild while they don't know what kind of rebuild they want. They have no idea how long it would take and what the risks are and ... Just look at this thread and you can see more than 10 different version of a rebuild, some think we will be competitive via rebuild within 2 years and some think rebuild means a 5-6 year commitment.

The good news is that situation was never as rosy as last fall and is not as bad as some make it to be now.
One thing for sure is the I don't see MU rushing to any decision.

MU stayed with Casey and that tells me he is not about to trade half of this team to rebuild. I guess we just have to wait and see.

Let me change this

were "wanting to see where this avenue goes instead of going full tank. If we kept winning we would run with it but not then we are back to square 1"

Guess where we are now?