Why can't we like DeMar AND JV?

[mcHAPPY]

He said "if Demar can be signed to a reasonable deal".

I know.

But he also said guaranteed.

Nothing is guaranteed in UFA.

And few things are reasonable.

[KHD]

He said "if Demar can be signed to a reasonable deal".

does anyone really think that's going to happen?

[Bonus Jonas]

I don't mean to nitpick but DeRozan is an unrestricted free agent next summer if he opts out. He will but if he doesn't he is an UFA in 2017.

How is he guaranteed to be here long term?

He said "if Demar can be signed to a reasonable deal".

[planetmars]

DeMar will be a 7 year vet when he opts out.. JV will be a 4 year rookie. Different classes, different extensions. JV's can be controlled because it can be matched. DD can be a UFA and can leave town if he wants to.

As a GM it would be easier to manager the situation when a guy is coming off his rookie contract over a vet heading into free agency.

As an asset DeMar is the most valuable this summer.. otherwise I'd hope he resigns for an affordable sum... if not, then he can become a drain on the cap despite the cap going up. Can't pay a guy like a #1 option when he's not.. that's not going to help a team win a championship.

[Jangles]

I'm sick of reading about "fit" when it comes to this team.

This team is currently not competing for anything other than being first round fodder. "Fit" does not matter. We need talent.

Not even saying that DeRozan needs to stay. But pointing to "fit" as the reason he needs to go makes little to no sense, when we don't even have core pieces in place (other than possibly JV).

By fit, I am referring to a shooting guard who cannot shoot. The same guy who says that any shot he can get off is a good shot. The same guy who says that he prefers taking contested shots over open shots. The same guy who can't even shoot 30% from 3. The same guy who is content in taking the bulk of his shot attempts from the most difficult and inefficient area on the court.

[mcHAPPY]

Apparently it's because I said they're 2 years apart when it's actually 2.75 years apart. I really hope that type of senseless nitpicking isn't common here. I wasn't trying to assert that DeMar is a young prospect or something, he's peaking/very close to peaked (in terms of ability, however I feel his production could be superior with a different system).

I'm not a DeRozan fanboy, I'm not trying to say he's still young, you guys don't need to attack me. If you told me right now "Ok JWash you're GM now you can only keep one, JV or DeRozan" I'd trade DeRozan so fast he'd drop both Ds in his two names.

That being said. I see the DD, JV pairing as a positive. McHAPPY said that DeMar will be exiting his prime as JV enters his, which is sort of true, but i'd rather look at it this way. If you keep them together, their ages at the start of each season:

2015-16: 26 & 23
2016-17: 27 & 24
2017-18: 28 & 25
2018-19: 29 & 26
2019-20: 30 & 27

DeRozan despite being a good athlete actually doesn't rely on his athleticism that much to be effective (he plays an old man's game), so I don't see him really dropping off much until he starts getting into his 30s. In which case we would still have 4-5 years at least of "prime" JV and "prime" DD.

I mean let's be real, IF DD can be retained for a reasonable price and no trade is on the table to move into the top 5 in this draft... then why not keep them together? You have the two weakest positions in the league taken care of long-term.

I don't mean to nitpick but DeRozan is an unrestricted free agent next summer if he opts out. He will but if he doesn't he is an UFA in 2017.

How is he guaranteed to be here long term?

[Axel]

He said DD was 25 and JV was 23, both of which are correct… and then still got "corrected" on it. I guess I'm missing something.

Well simply in terms of playing games, they are 3 years apart not 2. Since age is a factor in determining career arcs, progression, etc, it's a legit point to make.

[JWash]

He said DD was 25 and JV was 23, both of which are correct. I'm not sure he's the one who's making this into an issue when it's not?

Apparently it's because I said they're 2 years apart when it's actually 2.75 years apart. I really hope that type of senseless nitpicking isn't common here. I wasn't trying to assert that DeMar is a young prospect or something, he's peaking/very close to peaked (in terms of ability, however I feel his production could be superior with a different system).

I'm not a DeRozan fanboy, I'm not trying to say he's still young, you guys don't need to attack me. If you told me right now "Ok JWash you're GM now you can only keep one, JV or DeRozan" I'd trade DeRozan so fast he'd drop both Ds in his two names.

That being said. I see the DD, JV pairing as a positive. McHAPPY said that DeMar will be exiting his prime as JV enters his, which is sort of true, but i'd rather look at it this way. If you keep them together, their ages at the start of each season:

2015-16: 26 & 23
2016-17: 27 & 24
2017-18: 28 & 25
2018-19: 29 & 26
2019-20: 30 & 27

DeRozan despite being a good athlete actually doesn't rely on his athleticism that much to be effective (he plays an old man's game), so I don't see him really dropping off much until he starts getting into his 30s. In which case we would still have 4-5 years at least of "prime" JV and "prime" DD.

I mean let's be real, IF DD can be retained for a reasonable price and no trade is on the table to move into the top 5 in this draft... then why not keep them together? You have the two weakest positions in the league taken care of long-term.

[Fully]

While the age difference is irrelevant to the topic, since you included it don't see what is wrong with someone clarifying for accuracy. Next season DD is 26 and JV is 23. Demar's age in the offseason is pretty irrelevant.

Seems like you're making this into an issue when it shouldn't be.

He said DD was 25 and JV was 23, both of which are correct… and then still got "corrected" on it. I guess I'm missing something.

[mcHAPPY]

Ok dude, congratulations. Really hope this place isn't going to be like RealGM with a bunch of "know-it-alls" pretending to be just that.

I apologize for clarifying the age and obviously irritating you.

I'm not a fan of DeRozan's game. You've only joined this month but that should be obvious if you've spent any time here. One thing that drives me about some arguments for DeRozan is he is young. I think that ship has sailed. He is in his prime. The reason for mentioning it is in the context of your argument as JV enters his prime, DD will be leaving and quite possibly getting MEGA max dollars.

I wasn't trying to be a dick. In fact in my original reply I was pretty complimentary on the thread idea.

[McRealistic]

This needs to be stickied at the front of sooooo many threads. Seriously, who "fits" the Raptors? Does the team even have an ideology? Do the Raptors actually have more than 3 players (Lowry, DD, JV)? How can one decide who is the better fit, when the organization can not show us what direction they want to go?

I like both JV and DD. I wish they used both in ways that more correctly gave them opportunities to succeed. Demar is best coming off screens, or drive and kick sets. JV is most comfortable off pick and roll. CASEY allows the majority of plays to be isolation. Only 2 players on the Raps fit iso -- Lou and Lowry. So why is it being run so -- sorry about the tangent. I understand why they didn't fire Casey, but seriously, how can we truly judge players who are coached so poorly?

I think both are discredited for their defense. Demar seems to be the most consistent perimeter defender (which is sad), and JV is often blamed for mistakes that the perimeter defenders make. Anyway, I think you can like both and still recognize the flaws in their games. It doesn't have to be an either or scenario.

Now this is one of the best posts I read in RR forum.

I wish I could like it 2 times and repost it under the everything dear thread, everything JV thread and Fire Casey thread.

[special1]

This needs to be stickied at the front of sooooo many threads. Seriously, who "fits" the Raptors? Does the team even have an ideology? Do the Raptors actually have more than 3 players (Lowry, DD, JV)? How can one decide who is the better fit, when the organization can not show us what direction they want to go?

I like both JV and DD. I wish they used both in ways that more correctly gave them opportunities to succeed. Demar is best coming off screens, or drive and kick sets. JV is most comfortable off pick and roll. CASEY allows the majority of plays to be isolation. Only 2 players on the Raps fit iso -- Lou and Lowry. So why is it being run so -- sorry about the tangent. I understand why they didn't fire Casey, but seriously, how can we truly judge players who are coached so poorly?

I think both are discredited for their defense. Demar seems to be the most consistent perimeter defender (which is sad), and JV is often blamed for mistakes that the perimeter defenders make. Anyway, I think you can like both and still recognize the flaws in their games. It doesn't have to be an either or scenario.

Good post.


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[Axel]

Ok dude, congratulations. Really hope this place isn't going to be like RealGM with a bunch of "know-it-alls" pretending to be just that.

While the age difference is irrelevant to the topic, since you included it don't see what is wrong with someone clarifying for accuracy. Next season DD is 26 and JV is 23. Demar's age in the offseason is pretty irrelevant.

Seems like you're making this into an issue when it shouldn't be.

[blackjitsu]

I'm sick of reading about "fit" when it comes to this team.

This team is currently not competing for anything other than being first round fodder. "Fit" does not matter. We need talent.

Not even saying that DeRozan needs to stay. But pointing to "fit" as the reason he needs to go makes little to no sense, when we don't even have core pieces in place (other than possibly JV).

This needs to be stickied at the front of sooooo many threads. Seriously, who "fits" the Raptors? Does the team even have an ideology? Do the Raptors actually have more than 3 players (Lowry, DD, JV)? How can one decide who is the better fit, when the organization can not show us what direction they want to go?

I like both JV and DD. I wish they used both in ways that more correctly gave them opportunities to succeed. Demar is best coming off screens, or drive and kick sets. JV is most comfortable off pick and roll. CASEY allows the majority of plays to be isolation. Only 2 players on the Raps fit iso -- Lou and Lowry. So why is it being run so -- sorry about the tangent. I understand why they didn't fire Casey, but seriously, how can we truly judge players who are coached so poorly?

I think both are discredited for their defense. Demar seems to be the most consistent perimeter defender (which is sad), and JV is often blamed for mistakes that the perimeter defenders make. Anyway, I think you can like both and still recognize the flaws in their games. It doesn't have to be an either or scenario.

[Bonus Jonas]

JWash is a Stan, just for using it on this forum as an adjective. Clearly this guy loves Eminem lol

It's actually a pretty common saying. Idk must depend on your age I guess or maybe where you live but where I'm at its common-say to call superfans of anything stans.

Then again I live right across the border from detroit.

It's a by-law in the RR posting guidelines. Have to drive discussion somehow.

Lmfao

This forum has gotten really infested with blind supporters though. I could have sworn it wasn't that bad during the season, even through the rough stretches.